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Thread started 14 Feb 2014 (Friday) 15:27
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another stupid newbie question :)

 
tjs42
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Feb 14, 2014 15:27 |  #1

hiya been hanging around reading this amazing and confusing forum for a couple of months. I have a 1100 with a 18-55 and a 50mm lens. Have also bought a yongnuo speedlite 11. Basic i know but just starting out. My young son does kickboxing and ive been taking photos of him and his mates in the ring while they have been fighting. movement is so quick and most are blurry. to be honest they are useless. i have tried changing settings on my camera but, always end up getting lost so revert back to auto:oops::cry:. is there a setting for Aperture, Shutter Speed, & ISO that i can set it to and leave it on for the duration of the competition?
i know a million people have asked the same sort of questions and feel stupid for asking but not exactly technically minded:D

thanks in advance




  
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gonzogolf
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Feb 14, 2014 15:33 |  #2

Try this. Set you camera on M (full manual) Dial the shutter speed to 1/200 of a second and your aperture to F5.6, turn on the flash to ETTL mode. In this configuration the flash will become the primary light source. Before its very likely your camera was trying to use as little flash as possible give you slow shutter speeds and blur. In my suggested setup the flash will freeze motion. The flash works by firing a very brief burst (as short as 1/1000 of a second or less) of light, since that is nearly the only light falling on the subject it will only record while the flash is present. Please tell us which flash you have as speedlite 11 isnt a model that I have heard of.




  
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Wilt
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Feb 14, 2014 15:36 |  #3

All flash photos should be thought of as being comprised of two parts...
1.the ambient light exposure,
2. the flash-lit exposure.

In dark circumstances, #1 is underexposed while #2 is properly exposed, and since #2 light output from the flash is very brief, there is no issues with motion blur, as you have experienced.

So, to eliminate the motion blur from your shots, you need to try to UNDEREXPOSE #1, while #2 takes care of itself. So you should deliberately choose a faster shutter speed (like 1/250), with a moderate f/stop (like f/4) and a moderate ISO (like ISO 100-400), and that will underexpose the ambient light exposure, and the flash will output enough light to properly capture the action with its very brief light output.


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tjs42
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Feb 14, 2014 15:37 as a reply to  @ gonzogolf's post |  #4

hiya thanks for the reply. sorry i should have put the full name down. yongnuo speedlite yn560. i have only just got this flash so haven't used it as yet. was only using the cameras flash or none at all because it seemed light enough




  
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BrickR
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Feb 14, 2014 15:38 |  #5

Not sure what speedlight you're using. I assume it is a manual only speedlight. One speedlight on its own without a modifier may not be enough power, but I don't know the setup (distance from subjects, environment, etc). Flash adds light so that you can lower ISO (less grainy pics) but there is a sync limit that your shutter speed can't go over, maybe 1/250 or something like that.

You may want to try Tv mode with ISO set to auto. You will then choose the shutter speed and the camera will pic the rest. You'll want to be in the 1/200 or faster (you'll know with a few test shots if you can freeze the action with that speed or if you need to go faster. The 50mm is the fastest lens you have at f1.8 (assuming you mean the 50 1.8 lens). Use that lens as your first choice. F1.8 lets in much more light than the f3.5-f5.6 of the 18-55 lens.
Shoot in AI Servo mode. It helps when shooting action.

These are a LOT of tips you can get to overcome the challenges of that scenario, but then it gets more technical and skill dependent ;) STAY out of auto! You'll never learn that way. Trust me, I know from experience, it is the shots you mess up that you learn the most from! So stumble and fall now so that you can run and climb later :)


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gonzogolf
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Feb 14, 2014 15:42 |  #6

Okay, the 560 is manual only so you will need to do some trial and error to get the right power dialed in start out at 1/8 power and adjust up or down until you get the right amount dialed in. As long as your distance between you and your subject doesnt change you shouldnt have to change the flash power.




  
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tjs42
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Feb 14, 2014 15:46 as a reply to  @ gonzogolf's post |  #7

many thanks for the replies. i know i have got some great advice and will try to fathom it all out:D....keep up the good work guys




  
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Wilt
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Feb 14, 2014 16:22 |  #8

Uh-oh, a manual flash in use with a zoom lens...complicates the usage! Time for a flash primer:

Every flash has a 'Guide Number', which allows you to compute the proper exposure -- but at a specific Focal Length and Power Level and ISO setting. For example, if a flash was rated with GN88 with a 'normal lens', and the subject was 11' away, your exposure would be at f/8

GN = distance * f/stop. or
distance = GN / fstop

Now look at the YN560 table...which assumes ISO 100!

IMAGE: http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/wiltonw/POTN%202013%20Post%20Mar1/YN560_zps19c83490.jpg

You can see that there is a column for Focal Length (expressed in FF terms), and a row for a specific power setting. Let us look only at the top row for now. On your APS-C camera, FL of 31mm on your APS-C body is similar to using FL 50mm on FF camera body (50/1.6 = 31).

  1. So we see that if flash is at Full Power (1/1), and your lens is 'normal FL', the GN (in feet) is about GN138 (ignore the 42 number, which is the GN if you measured distances in meters). So if your subject was 12.5' away, you would set f/11. Now lets us look at another scenario...with lens 18mm
  2. So we see that if flash is at Full Power (1/1), and the lens column is '28mm' (which is about the same as having 18mm on your APS-C body), the GN (in feet) is about GN98 . So if your subject was 12.5' away, you would set f/8. Now let us look at the first scenario again, but at 1/2 power (second row on the chart).
  3. So we see that if flash is at Half Power (1/2), and your lens is 'normal FL' (50mm on FF or 31mm on APS-C), the GN (in feet) is about GN97 . So if your subject was 12.2' away, you would set f/8.


The Important Take-Away Message:
All of these arithmetic gyrations are the reason why photographers leave manual flash units like the YN560 in the studio, and buy ETTL-compatible flash units for more dynamic situations!!!

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tzalman
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Feb 14, 2014 16:35 |  #9

Wilt wrote in post #16689680 (external link)
So, to eliminate the motion blur from your shots, you need to try to UNDEREXPOSE #1, while #2 takes care of itself. So you should deliberately choose a faster shutter speed (like 1/250), with a moderate f/stop (like f/4) and a moderate ISO (like ISO 100-400), and that will underexpose the ambient light exposure, and the flash will output enough light to properly capture the action with its very brief light output.

Make that 1/200, the maximum speed that can be used with flash for your camera. Exceed that and part of the image will be black.
Aside from that the advice is sound.


Elie / אלי

  
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Wilt
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Feb 14, 2014 16:55 |  #10

tzalman wrote in post #16689798 (external link)
Make that 1/200, the maximum speed that can be used with flash for your camera. Exceed that and part of the image will be black.
Aside from that the advice is sound.

Canon really makes life more complicated, when it deliberately 'slows down' the max X-sync speed more than usual for bodies with a particular sensor size! :cry:


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kfreels
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Feb 15, 2014 10:46 |  #11

You've got two choices. Either plan to spend a great deal of time and effort learning all about flash photography and getting a lot of crappy shots along the way, or buy a new dedicated e-ttl speedlight and do as gonzogolf said which will allow you to get more good shots and you can still learn and practice manual when you want. The Yongnuo YN-565 EX is TTL.


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Beachcomber ­ Joe
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Feb 16, 2014 11:18 |  #12

Wilt wrote in post #16689833 (external link)
Canon really makes life more complicated, when it deliberately 'slows down' the max X-sync speed more than usual for bodies with a particular sensor size! :cry:

In the case of Yongnuo flashes you would need to choose 1/200 or slower anyway. Most Yongnuo flashes, including the 560, have a flash duration of 1/200 sec at full power.




  
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tjs42
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Feb 16, 2014 13:49 as a reply to  @ Beachcomber Joe's post |  #13

so i'm better off selling my flash and getting a Yongnuo YN-565 EX. what is the difference between yongnuo speedlite yn560 and the Yongnuo YN-565 EX model?. please forgive my ignorance

many thanks




  
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Wilt
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Feb 16, 2014 14:11 |  #14

YN560 = Manual flash only

YN565 = ETTL-compatible flash exposure automation, as well as manual operation


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tjs42
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Feb 16, 2014 15:03 |  #15

Wilt wrote in post #16694051 (external link)
YN560 = Manual flash only

YN565 = ETTL-compatible flash exposure automation, as well as manual operation


thanks :D




  
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another stupid newbie question :)
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