Article - Sony is a real innovator, Canon is not

Touche!

Colorblinded wrote in post #16705245
Well that's the thing, the only Toyota anyone wants is a Subaru.

I love Toyotas, and not the Subaru variety, either. In my opinion, the plain old Corolla with a standard transmission is the best car in the world, on a "net cost per mile from 0 miles to 500,000 miles." I do "lust" for that model.

As far as Canon is concerned, I think they are smart. Why be innovative if innovation won't improve the bottom line? I think that the decisions they make are all made on a ROI basis, and they are obviously doing a great job at such decision-making, as their profits will demonstrate.

andrikos wrote in post #16704853
"Article - Sony is a real innovator, Canon is not"

From:
http://www.marketwatch​.com …atents-in-2013-2014-01-14

"...IBM is at the top of the list again with a record-setting 6,809 patents, continuing a dominance that has lasted 21 straight years. Up 5 percent over the previous year, IBM maintains a comfortable lead of more than 2,000 patents over the closest contender, #2 Samsung Electronics. Canon, at #3, increased its count by 20 percent over 2012,[Sony is 4th]..."

David Arbogast above is correct. Canon is at a position of dominance and, to our chagrin, can afford to be more conservative.

If Sony was as conservative as Canon is right now they'd go extinct soon.
How many Sony DSLRs do you see professionals use? Exactly.
Sony is desperate. They have lost so many markets they were kings of, it's not even funny.

Long story short, Canon, just like Sony, has the R&D, manufacturing wherewithal, engineering resources and marketing abilities to leapfrog each other until kingdom come.

Until then carry on...

Talley wrote in post #16704900
This.

In response to this thread. Lets not forget that Canon owns 60% of the market At least they did at the world press photo awards.

http://www.canonrumors​.com …e-world-press-photo-list/

As Apple and many others who compete in the tech industry have shown us, given how rapidly technology moves, a smaller player who is willing to innovate from both a technological and marketing standpoint (often because their back is against the wall) can very quickly usurp the dominance of a market leader who is failing to recognize changing market trends.

Sony is out-maneuvering Canon from both a technological and a marketing standpoint right now.

From a business point of view Canon = great
From a photographic point of view canon = disappointing.

mho

Didn't Canon just swipe 60% or so of the professional market share with basically the 1DX and 5D3?

I guess their products speak for themselves

http://www.thephoblogr​apher.com …ld-press-photo-2014-list/

mystik610 wrote in post #16706034
Sony is out-maneuvering Canon from both a technological and a marketing standpoint right now.

Because, their backs are against the wall.
For them, it's either innovate or DIE. It's that simple.

Canon is at a much more comfortable position. And, yes, as avid hobbyists we hate that. But Canon wouldn't give 2 $h1ts about that we think...

andrikos wrote in post #16706053
Because, their backs are against the wall.
For them, it's either innovate or DIE. It's that simple.

Canon is at a much more comfortable position. And, yes, as avid hobbyists we hate that. But Canon wouldn't give 2 $h1ts about that we think...

Tom Reichner wrote in post #16705754
As far as Canon is concerned, I think they are smart. Why be innovative if innovation won't improve the bottom line? I think that the decisions they make are all made on a ROI basis, and they are obviously doing a great job at such decision-making, as their profits will demonstrate.

This is the same mind-set the Microsoft, and a lot of big players in the tech space adopt, before they get the rug swept from under them.

Innovating requires high capital expenditures, which from a short-sighted financial standpoint, lowers your ROA, ROE, and your margins overall. Why spend the R&D to develop a new sensor when you can shove the same one in "new" cameras every year, while perpetuating your position in the market right?

What the tech industry has shown us, however, is that the market can often shift faster than a reactive company can innovate to keep up, as the fruits of investing in R&D take time to develop. Successful companies in the tech space these days are not those who are reacting to changing market trends...its those who are leveraging innovation on the front-end to create shifts in market trends.

Consumers in the tech space demand innovation. Companies like Canon can only ignore that fact for so long to protect their bottom line, before it affects their top line

^
I agree with everything you say.
History (before the 2011 Tsunami) has shown us that Canon is an innovative company.
Perhaps many reasons outside of their control are conspiring against their innovation nowadays.
Add to that the whole P&S/dSLR/mirrorless market instability and it's quite reasonable to understand why they might be on a wait&see mode right now...

I do think it takes time to recover from a tsunami. It's far too early to be comparing Canon to Kodak.

I am anxiously awaiting the 7D II like many other wildlife/bird enthusiasts so on a personal level, I would love to see things move more quickly.

The Toyota comments make me smile. I drove Volvo's for years until I bought an old Toyota truck and had such good luck with it. We now have two, less than exciting Avalons... and we couldn't be happier.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #16705754
I love Toyotas, and not the Subaru variety, either. In my opinion, the plain old Corolla with a standard transmission is the best car in the world, on a "net cost per mile from 0 miles to 500,000 miles." I do "lust" for that model.

Really? Lust after a Toyota? I can see lusting after a Ferrari, A Vette ZR1, or a Shelby GT500, but a Toyota? No way. I might buy and drive a Toyota but it would not be because I lust after it, it would be because there is no way I could afford a Vette ZR1 and a Toyota would puttputt me to where i have to be without draining my wallet.

mystik610 wrote in post #16706034
As Apple and many others who compete in the tech industry have shown us, given how rapidly technology moves, a smaller player who is willing to innovate from both a technological and marketing standpoint (often because their back is against the wall) can very quickly usurp the dominance of a market leader who is failing to recognize changing market trends.

Sony is out-maneuvering Canon from both a technological and a marketing standpoint right now.

I don't know if I would put Apple or Sony into the small company category.

ptcanon3ti wrote in post #16706042
From a business point of view Canon = great
From a photographic point of view canon = disappointing.

This sort of sums it up but I'm not sure I would say that Canon is disapointing from a photographic point of view, Canon cameras do just fine. They may not lead the pack technology wise, may not output the best image, but their image quality is dang nice. Canon is like driving a Toyota, reliable, gets the job done whereas others are like driving a ZR1.

andrikos wrote in post #16706079
^
I agree with everything you say.
History (before the 2011 Tsunami) has shown us that Canon is an innovative company.
Perhaps many reasons outside of their control are conspiring against their innovation nowadays.
Add to that the whole P&S/dSLR/mirrorless market instability and it's quite reasonable to understand why they might be on a wait&see mode right now...

Canon stopped inovating quite some time ago. Canon took a huge risk with the 5Dc and really changed the market. It took others years to catch up. Trouble was that they have been slow ever since. All the innovations in SLRs today came from other cameras first. Live view, articulated screens, mirrorless, pro level AF in consumer bodies, MFA, and many others were introduced in other cameras first. Canon lost innovation leadership a long time ago. Canon follows But to build on Apple analogy, it's not important to be first, it's important to make people believe you were first and to be best.

My Toyota's 3 have been dead reliable(bottom line) for over 150,000 miles which none of my previous American cars can do.As far as Canon goes show me one sport shooter using Sony(silence)sensor be damned.
Some people here act like Canon's IQ suck and there stuck in the 1990's,I for one have been very happy with the IQ of my Canon's and know many Nikon shooters that between the two brands I know I can't tell a difference in photo's and many times I'm standing right next to them shooting.
I do have one friend who shoots Sony and while there camera is filled with so called technology that my Canon might not have their IQ is pretty bad.

Although I am in the "unhappy with Canon" camp, I don't agree with the article that Canon is not an innovation leader. To me innovation is about being inventive. I don't think Sony is any more "inventive" than Canon. Putting a FF sensor in a mirrorless body is not what I would call "innovation" (as with the Sony a7/R). It might be excellent "engineering", but it isn't inventive and so I don't regard it as "innovative".

I don't care if Canon is innovative or not (they showed a flash of "innovation" with their dual pixel sensor design in the 70D), but I do wish they would respond to the movement of the market with a whole lot less foot-dragging. I don't think it's a question of "if", but "when" Canon develops a FF mirrorless camera. They could release one this year, but at their current pace it may take them ten years.

And, I don't think it is a question of "if" but "when" Canon releases a very high resolution camera (DSLR or mirrorless), but while they could do it this year, at their current pace it may take them ten years.

Slow slow slow to respond. The Canon EOS M looks like they came to the mirrorless party crying, throwing a fit, and dragging their feet the whole way there. They didn't need innovation, they just needed a good strong solid answer. And they failed. And they are continuing to fail to respond to current market conditions with timely product releases.

Canon is, as so many in this thread have already stated, absolutely brilliant at protecting their profits and continuing to capture market share. And good for them! Don't take my comments as critical of Canon as a company, but only as critical of Canon from the perspective of me as one individual consurmer. I want Canon to deliver the goods, and they just aren't doing it. Thankfully, in part, Sony is.

David Arbogast wrote in post #16706667
I want Canon to deliver the goods, and they just aren't doing it. Thankfully, in part, Sony is.

Bottom line...right there.

If Canon keeps the slow slow slow approach...who knows how many people with tire of it and move on? Time will tell.

A lot of this is about product cycle. Sony made a leap and has a momentary technical advantage. Canon will counter in their next product cycle. Any momentary lead in technology by one company or another is historically overtaken in pretty short order by the others.

Hasn't the same old 18 mp sensor that Canon has been stuffing into every body from the Rebel to the 7D been "cycled" long enough? Seriously...