Distortion on the 16-35mm is unacceptable. are 24,28,35 primes better?

5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
Speedlite 420EZ | Speedlite 580EX | EF 1.4x II | EF 2x II

kin2son wrote in post #16691913
He already did?

Here's a suggestion - The main issue is the people at the extreme corner, in the 2nd pic create a 3rd row in front and ask some of the youngster to kneel down a lil?

I did that and got some good photos.. But I would like something that works out of the box as it were.. a solution that works.. is there an answer?? or do I just have to accept it?

EOS 5Dmk3 X2, 60D, EF24-70mm f2.8L mk2, EF70-200mm f2.8L IS mk2, EF85mm f1.8, EF50mm f1.4, EF50mm f1.8 mk1(350D with 18-55mm Sh"kit" lens).
Speedlite 600EX-RT, 430EX II Flash. manfrotto 190XDB tripod, Giottos GTMML 3290B Monopod, B+W 77mm 110 Single Coated filter, Hama 77mm Variable Neutral Density Filter.

kin2son wrote in post #16691913
ask some of the youngster to kneel down a lil?

Apart from the girl on the left they are all over 30 possibly over 35, but I dare ask .. LOL....

EOS 5Dmk3 X2, 60D, EF24-70mm f2.8L mk2, EF70-200mm f2.8L IS mk2, EF85mm f1.8, EF50mm f1.4, EF50mm f1.8 mk1(350D with 18-55mm Sh"kit" lens).
Speedlite 600EX-RT, 430EX II Flash. manfrotto 190XDB tripod, Giottos GTMML 3290B Monopod, B+W 77mm 110 Single Coated filter, Hama 77mm Variable Neutral Density Filter.

Nick_Reading.UK wrote in post #16691924
I did that and got some good photos.. But I would like something that works out of the bow as it were.. an solution that works.. is there an answer?? or do I just have to accept it?

To a large part you have to accept it.

Any lens (wide or not) used very close to the subjects means that a small difference in distance to the subjects makes a large difference in scale.

So if one guy is 1 meter away and the second guy is 1 meter 30 cm away, then the second guy is 1.3 times as far away - which means that the second guy will be captured 1.3 times smaller than the first guy.

That is the reason why people captured from a very short distance gets huge noses and tiny ears (if the ears is even visible).

Next thing is that a wide lens tries to capture a flat image plane - not a sphere. So if you tilt your camera lens compared to the subject, then part of the subject will be closer and part of the subject will be further away. This gives you a scale difference - like the walls that aren't vertical anymore.

5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
Speedlite 420EZ | Speedlite 580EX | EF 1.4x II | EF 2x II

pwm2 wrote in post #16691919
One thing for you to experiment with - shoot indoors and make sure the lens is straight ahead. Then aim the lens slightly upwards or downwards. If you compare the shots, you'll notice how extremely much difference it makes to aim up/down. That is the reason why your vertical lines are all tilted in the two above photos.

Thanks, good advice.. I just need 10+ volunteers.. LOL

EOS 5Dmk3 X2, 60D, EF24-70mm f2.8L mk2, EF70-200mm f2.8L IS mk2, EF85mm f1.8, EF50mm f1.4, EF50mm f1.8 mk1(350D with 18-55mm Sh"kit" lens).
Speedlite 600EX-RT, 430EX II Flash. manfrotto 190XDB tripod, Giottos GTMML 3290B Monopod, B+W 77mm 110 Single Coated filter, Hama 77mm Variable Neutral Density Filter.

Permanent ban

5D3 Gripped / 17-40L / Σ35 / 40 Pancake / Zeiss 50 MP / Σ85 / 100L Macro / 70-200 f2.8L II IS / 430 EX II / 580 EX II / Canon 2xIII TC / Kenko Ext. Tubes
EOS M / EF-M 18-55 / EF-M 22f2 / Ricoh GR aka Ultimate street camera
Flickr | My Images on Getty®‎

pwm2 wrote in post #16691937
To a large part you have to accept it.

Any lens (wide or not) used very close to the subjects means that a small difference in distance to the subjects makes a large difference in scale.

So if one guy is 1 meter away and the second guy is 1 meter 30 cm away, then the second guy is 1.3 times as far away - which means that the second guy will be captured 1.3 times smaller than the first guy.

That is the reason why people captured from a very short distance gets huge noses and tiny ears (if the ears is even visible).

Next thing is that a wide lens tries to capture a flat image plane - not a sphere. So if you tilt your camera lens compared to the subject, then part of the subject will be closer and part of the subject will be further away. This gives you a scale difference - like the walls that aren't vertical anymore.

Ok.. so having prime at 35mm rather than a zoom at 35mm will make zero difference ??

EOS 5Dmk3 X2, 60D, EF24-70mm f2.8L mk2, EF70-200mm f2.8L IS mk2, EF85mm f1.8, EF50mm f1.4, EF50mm f1.8 mk1(350D with 18-55mm Sh"kit" lens).
Speedlite 600EX-RT, 430EX II Flash. manfrotto 190XDB tripod, Giottos GTMML 3290B Monopod, B+W 77mm 110 Single Coated filter, Hama 77mm Variable Neutral Density Filter.

Nick_Reading.UK wrote in post #16691901
Yes I agree, so please advise??

You don't have Image Editing OK but I took a stab at correcting it.

If you object, let me know and I'll take it out.

Image hosted by forum (677224) © MakisM1 [SHARE LINK]
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What you can do to minimize perspective distortion:

- Shoot with the lens axis horizontal. Most of the objectionable distortion comes from non-horizontal wide angle lens axes.

- Stagger the positions of the people, so that ones near the edges are a bit further back.

-Position yourself lower and shoot at people's bellybuttons

Gerry
Canon R6 MkII/Canon 5D MkIII/Canon 60D/Canon EF-S 18-200/Canon EF 24-70L USM II/Canon EF 70-200L 2.8 USM II/Canon EF 50 f1.8 II/Σ 8-16/Σ 105ΕΧ DG/ 430 EXII
OS: Linux Ubuntu/PostProcessing: Darktable/Image Processing: GIMP

kin2son wrote in post #16691947
Here's another - ask them to stand absolute still and you do 3 shots @ 35mm in portrait orientation and stitch in post?

That should minimise perspective distortion.

Remember that perspective distortion is about distance - not focal length.

5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
Speedlite 420EZ | Speedlite 580EX | EF 1.4x II | EF 2x II

kin2son wrote in post #16691947
Here's another - ask them to stand absolute still and you do 3 shots @ 35mm in portrait orientation and stitch in post?

That should minimise perspective distortion.

Half of them did not speak English.. anyway, Asking 20 people to stand still is.. well, impossible when you have 5-85 year olds..

EOS 5Dmk3 X2, 60D, EF24-70mm f2.8L mk2, EF70-200mm f2.8L IS mk2, EF85mm f1.8, EF50mm f1.4, EF50mm f1.8 mk1(350D with 18-55mm Sh"kit" lens).
Speedlite 600EX-RT, 430EX II Flash. manfrotto 190XDB tripod, Giottos GTMML 3290B Monopod, B+W 77mm 110 Single Coated filter, Hama 77mm Variable Neutral Density Filter.

MakisM1 wrote in post #16691955
You don't have Image Editing OK but I took a stab at correcting it.

If you object, let me know and I'll take it out.

Hosted photo: posted by MakisM1 in
./showthread.php?p=166​91955&i=i125258053
forum: Canon Lenses

What you can do to minimize perspective distortion:

- Shoot with the lens axis horizontal. Most of the objectionable distortion comes from non-horizontal wide angle lens axes.

- Stagger the positions of the people, so that ones near the edges are a bit further back.

-Position yourself lower and shoot at people's bellybuttons

The German on the right still has a wonky head.. But that's OK, he's German..

EOS 5Dmk3 X2, 60D, EF24-70mm f2.8L mk2, EF70-200mm f2.8L IS mk2, EF85mm f1.8, EF50mm f1.4, EF50mm f1.8 mk1(350D with 18-55mm Sh"kit" lens).
Speedlite 600EX-RT, 430EX II Flash. manfrotto 190XDB tripod, Giottos GTMML 3290B Monopod, B+W 77mm 110 Single Coated filter, Hama 77mm Variable Neutral Density Filter.

EOS 5Dmk3 X2, 60D, EF24-70mm f2.8L mk2, EF70-200mm f2.8L IS mk2, EF85mm f1.8, EF50mm f1.4, EF50mm f1.8 mk1(350D with 18-55mm Sh"kit" lens).
Speedlite 600EX-RT, 430EX II Flash. manfrotto 190XDB tripod, Giottos GTMML 3290B Monopod, B+W 77mm 110 Single Coated filter, Hama 77mm Variable Neutral Density Filter.

Permanent ban

Nick_Reading.UK wrote in post #16692031
so, why did I not have distortion on my 17-55 EF-s (17mm = 27.2 on FF)

Sure you did

5D3 Gripped / 17-40L / Σ35 / 40 Pancake / Zeiss 50 MP / Σ85 / 100L Macro / 70-200 f2.8L II IS / 430 EX II / 580 EX II / Canon 2xIII TC / Kenko Ext. Tubes
EOS M / EF-M 18-55 / EF-M 22f2 / Ricoh GR aka Ultimate street camera
Flickr | My Images on Getty®‎

Nick_Reading.UK wrote in post #16692031
so, why did I not have distortion on my 17-55 EF-s (17mm = 27.2 on FF)

There are multiple types of distortion. The two main things here is barrel distortion and perspective distortion. Barrel distortion is related to the quality of the lens - and zoom lenses (especially in some parts of the zoom range) have much more barrel distortion issues than primes. And wider lenses normally have more issues because there is more curvature of the image plane with a wide lens, making it much, much harder to create a wide lens with little barrel distortion.

Lots of software have profiles for different lenses and can correct the barrel distortion.

Perspective distortion, on the other hand, is not about focal length. It's about relative distance to subjects. You can use a 10 mm lens and get good photos. Just that the subject tends to be quite small because you can't walk all up to the subject and fill the frame without huge distortion.

On the other hand - a 100mm lens shot at minimum focal distance will give lots of perspective distortion.

5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
Speedlite 420EZ | Speedlite 580EX | EF 1.4x II | EF 2x II