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Thread started 17 Feb 2014 (Monday) 07:29
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6D VS 5d3 - Hard Time Deciding

 
Charlie
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Feb 18, 2014 21:10 |  #91

OuttaCtrl wrote in post #16700351 (external link)
I am no expert at this subject but in your example it is easier to track a moving object when it is moving towards you. How about one moving laterally at high speed I think we would see a significant difference.

I'de say it's the opposite. The AF was barely keeping up with these dogs during the forward moving sprints. With the 100% crops, the dogs were starting to go out of focus, but image still quite sharp.

the lateral shots were quite sharp, and on money.

on a related note, more confusion with the 6D and basketball: https://photography-on-the.net …p=16698103&post​count=9681


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bobbyz
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Feb 18, 2014 21:22 |  #92

Scrumhalf wrote in post #16698015 (external link)
Just like the 5D3 guys who have never tried the 1DX don't know what they are missing? ;)

True but we not talking 1dx here and I would take 1dx over 5dmk3 anytime day or night. BTW - I had 6d and 5dmk3 and shot both side by side for more than 6 months. I clearly showed my issues with 6d when using outer AF points. But couple of 6d guys here don't want to see the point. They say no issues with outer points but when asked won't show any shots. One shoots mostly manual focus from what I gather, so AF doesn't matter at all IMHO.

Here is what Gabe just said above:

gabebalazs wrote in post #16699618 (external link)
Here are my thoughts regarding the 7D/70D AF vs 6D AF, having used and owned all 3 (at the same time).

Tracking is pretty good with the 6D too with the center point. A couple weeks ago I shot a charity basketball game from the stands using my Sigma 70-200 2.8 OS, and I was satisfied with the results.
So far it looks good for the 6D...

Now, when it comes to the outer points, the story changes a bit. Even though the general consensus is that the 6D's AF system is an improvement over the 5D2's (both center and off-center points) the fact is you still only have non-cross type outer points. So you gotta be careful and keep in mind the orientation of the non-cross type points. Under most conditions, if you have a good target, you can use the outer points with confidence. It's physics; if they see a good target, e.g. someone's eye, they lock on and they are accurate. But when conditions go downhill, or occasionally they encounter a pattern that they can't pick up due to orientation, there may be problems. Obviously, you don't have to worry about this with the 7D/70D (and the 5DIII). On these bodies both one-shot and AI servo is good with these outer points; so we could say that the range of conditions that these outer points track well is much wider than with the 6D. It's not like the 6D won't track with the outer points but when conditions get to a point, there will be more keepers with the 7D/70D/5DIII, probably the most keepers with the latter. So it largely depends on the task and the conditions how much better the more advanced AF system will do. But anyone who buys a 6D is not buying it for off-center AF point tracking purposes during twilight :)


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Feb 18, 2014 22:19 |  #93

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #16700058 (external link)
Yes, they were great shots, and yes they could absolutely be pulled off with a 6D. Note that the DOF isn't all that narrow, there's a lot more in focus than just the players eyes, which is what makes it a great shot. You seem to always talk about how important it is to focus on a subjects eyes... if only his eyes were in focus the photo would be severely lacking.

As I've stated before, I've had no issues using MF to track tumbling gymnasts at wide aperture. If I were doing it professionally, sure I'd opt for a more advanced focus system, but it's not necessary for the occasional sports shoot.

So you are able to use the outermost AF point on the 6D to track a player while the other players mill around him, and then when he goes up for the shot, you can keep him in focus when you hit the shutter? That is great news!

DOF has nothing to do with this job, the AF, with the way I have it all configured, stayed on Ron the entire time he brought the ball down and then went up for the shot, even though other players tried to steal the ball and block him. If you are gauging the DOF based on the other player blocking, he actually came in at an angle to Ron, and was almost exactly in the same plane. Remember too that I am at floor level, not up in the stands. This means all 9 other players are getting in front of me at any time. and even worse, the officials (those great black/white shirts really help AF get off track). I have the AF acquisition slider set to slow, but have the other sliders set a bit more aggressively. The other thing I do is that during a fast break, I will pull up the camera and instantly lock on the action, so I am not actually following the player to the end of the play. The 7D did quite well at that, and I am pleased to see that the 5D3 does as well.

If the 6D could do all that great, but I want to make sure almost all my shots are keepers, and I don't have to work for it, or worry about it. I have about a 90% keeper rate, there were several where the camera decided to switch back to the fans, or on another player, most likely because I didn't do my part in keeping the AF point where it needed to be. For the same reasons, some shoot OOC JPG with the newer bodies to save time and make life generally easier during their photographic journey, the same answer applies to me regarding AF. No muss, no fuss, no worrrying, and a higher rate of keepers... :)


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Feb 18, 2014 22:57 as a reply to  @ bobbyz's post |  #94

Bakewell wrote in post #16699176 (external link)
...Lets not make excuses why it's necessary to take pics of dogs.

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equiworks wrote in post #16699703 (external link)
...I find it unfortunate that some people feel the need to make fun of what others like to shoot....

Don't sweat it, its just trolls be trolls...




  
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Feb 18, 2014 23:34 |  #95

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16699145 (external link)
Quote:
The 5D Mark III comes with a new AF system that is, in terms of specification, very close to the flagship EOS 1D X. It comes with 61 points, 41 of which are cross-type points and, uniquely to this sensor, five of them are diagonally sensitive (for these double cross-type, imagine an X overlaid on a + shape).

Vs

Quote:
And while Nikon at least saw fit to provide dense coverage of the AF area with 39 focus points, Canon EOS 6D users will have to make do with just 11. And only the center AF point is cross-type (with both horizontal and vertical lines detected simultaneously), the remaining 10 being either vertical or horizontal-line sensitive.

Bakewell wrote in post #16699448 (external link)
Patiently waiting...........

and waiting...............

Your inability to see or read facts which contradict or prove you wrong is quite astounding... Teamspeed gave you exactly what you asked for, you even quoted the first part of his post in which he gave you the reply, yet you completely ignore the part of it which shows quite clearly that the 5DIII's centre point is a double cross type whereas the 6D's is just a regular cross type. The 5DIII's is X and +, whereas the 6D is just +.

I can't make it any clearer than that.

And before you try and act like you have no idea what I'm talking about, I refer you to our discussion about 6D vs 5DIII weather sealing.

And now back to the ignore list with you.


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Feb 19, 2014 04:21 as a reply to  @ Sirrith's post |  #96

Well i guess the million dollar qustion is those who have shot with the 6d and 5d3 do you think its necessary for the op to get the 5d3 for what they shoot? Or will the 6d suffice?


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Feb 19, 2014 04:33 |  #97

I have shot both. Like i mentioned before, the 6d is a nice camera. But after using it going back to the 5d was a treat. Even my friends one that I used, he said he wished the autofocus system was better for tracking. I dont know if this really matters but shooting with the 5d and a 70-200 2.8 is HEAVY! That may also be something to consider.




  
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Feb 19, 2014 06:29 |  #98

Sirrith wrote in post #16700630 (external link)
Your inability to see or read facts which contradict or prove you wrong is quite astounding... Teamspeed gave you exactly what you asked for, you even quoted the first part of his post in which he gave you the reply, yet you completely ignore the part of it which shows quite clearly that the 5DIII's centre point is a double cross type whereas the 6D's is just a regular cross type. The 5DIII's is X and +, whereas the 6D is just +.

I can't make it any clearer than that.

And before you try and act like you have no idea what I'm talking about, I refer you to our discussion about 6D vs 5DIII weather sealing.

And now back to the ignore list with you.

Actually the 5 center points are like this, I believe, not just the center, unlike the 7D. This should create more accurate center point AF if there is enough light and I am using certain f2.8 lenses. I will do more birding to see what this will do, but having a sensor being sensitive in 4 different orientations should be noticeable in certain situations.

Here is a picture of the AF sensor from the 1Dx to give others an idea. The 6D doesn't have the outer X's part of the sensor. The 7D only has 1 set of the outer X lines.

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'binary/octet-stream'


6D
IMAGE: http://i.imgur.com/5JSjP.jpg

Interestingly the Rebel T5i has a center dual cross sensor, like the 7D, just not the 19pt.
IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'binary/octet-stream'


Regarding BW, he/she has long since been on my ignore list. It is the same thing each time, it's almost like a child that sticks their fingers in the ears and says "la la la la". :lol:

It's too bad, it detracts from good discussions with other members in these threads, and really doesn't add any valuable content. He/she never offers help or any of their work to show points of discussion, it is always an exercise in argumentative discourse.

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Feb 19, 2014 06:56 |  #99

I'm not sure I'm correct but the 6D is neither single cross type nor double at the center :) I think it's a crosstype for 5.6 and there is an extra - or | for lenses 2.8 and faster. So it's not double crosstype but not just a plain single crosstype either.
Maybe that's what TeamSpeed said too, but my brain doesn't work right now, it's too early and I'm lying at home sick...


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Feb 19, 2014 06:58 |  #100

Does the 5DIII have the focus shift under different lights (like many Canons do, e.g. 7D, 70D?)


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Feb 19, 2014 07:15 |  #101

Not sure if this helps the OP or not, but here are photos from the only basketball "game" that ever shot. I have no experience in shooting sports events (but in fairness, I have lots experience shooting BIF), I just took my 6D and Sigma 70-200 2.8 OS with me to this faculty/alumni vs. students charity game (my wife's a faculty at U of Toledo).

Anyway, I just shot from the stands; there were only a couple hundred people attending, so I could move around. I just did it for fun not as job.

I used AI Servo for these shots, center point. Most of these are cropped a little bit, and are not very good compared to TeamSpeed's photos.

5 of these were shot at 200mm, at 2.8 or 3.2. One is 128mm 3.2.

I'm not trying to prove a point here or anything, just sharing my experience with the OP.

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Feb 19, 2014 07:31 |  #102

Sirrith wrote in post #16700630 (external link)
The 5DIII's is X and +, whereas the 6D is just +.

I can't make it any clearer than that.

Well, I can.
The 6D center point is configured like the 5D Mark II, for example, which implies it's actually both a + (standard accuracy, works from f/5.6) and a - (high accuracy, works from f/2.8). Cameras with this configuration typically focuses twice, first with the f/5.6, because it's cross type and often also better at getting you in the ballpark after being heavily defocused, then refines the focusing by making a new attempt using the single f/2.8 high accuracy element. Since that's linear only, it may fail completely, but then the camera just does nothing. If the high-accuracy point instead finds reason for a minor adjustment, that's carried out and then the shutter triggers.


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Feb 19, 2014 07:37 |  #103
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^^^ so how does that compare to the dual cross on the 5D3?


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Feb 19, 2014 07:46 as a reply to  @ kin2son's post |  #104

The obvious advantage of the dual cross, first introduced on the 40D, is that the high-accuracy focusing also can handle contrasts in any orientation. The configuration in the 6D, which has its heritage from the 20D, can only detect vertical contrasts with the high-accuracy part.

But that's not always a disaster. Look at the 1D Mark IV, for example. At f/5.6, it doesn't have a single cross-type point. At f/4, it has one, in the center.
Heard anyone complaining about the 1D Mark IV AF system being useless?

When you go f/2.8 or better, then the difference shows. The 1D Mark IV has AF points that are a combination of - and |, but no + points. The first element is linear only, and starts working at f/5.6 (f/8 at center). The other element is perpendicular to the first, provides high accuracy and thus doesn't start working until f/2.8 (f/4 at center).

The 1DX is actually the very first 1D-series camera to have cross-type points that work already at apertures smaller than f/2.8 (again, the center point is one stop different - and there are some exceptions too, in earlier models). But then 1D-series cameras are often used by people who have good lenses, providing f/2.8 all the way up to 400 mm focal length.


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Feb 19, 2014 08:48 |  #105

gabebalazs wrote in post #16701062 (external link)
Does the 5DIII have the focus shift under different lights (like many Canons do, e.g. 7D, 70D?)

I would say yes but it is more of a lens thing.


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