One light setup question

I have a Canon Flash and a 24" Octobox that I am firing the flash into with a translucent cover to soften the light.

My question is this, do I get my background and surrounding light right in the camera right and then add flash to the subject or do I get the flash on my model right and then adjust for the surrounding light?

I want the area surrounding my model to show up and my model to equally be lit so that there is not a large transition between one or another.

Seems like my flash is too bright or either the background is too dark.

To be perfectly honest......I just suck lately!

mdaddyrabbit wrote in post #16732132
I have a Canon Flash and a 24" Octobox that I am firing the flash into with a translucent cover to soften the light.

My question is this, do I get my background and surrounding light right in the camera right and then add flash to the subject or do I get the flash on my model right and then adjust for the surrounding light?

I want the area surrounding my model to show up and my model to equally be lit so that there is not a large transition between one or another.

Seems like my flash is too bright or either the background is too dark.

To be perfectly honest......I just suck lately!

Sounds like you just need to turn your flash down... If in manual, dial back the power a stop at a time till you get it about right, then fine tune. If you're using E-TTL, dial in a negative flash exposure compensation.

Edit: I usually think about background exposure first, then add flash for subject. But that's just me...

Thanks bseitz for your advice.

Its generally easier to get your ambient exposure dialed in keeping below max synch speed using the aperture you want. Then add flash using the power control to dial in the power. If you change the aperture it affects both flash and ambient. Shutter speed can change the brightness of the ambient independently of the flash power.

I have been getting my light right on my subject and then adjusting for the background. I think I would do better to get background right and then adjust flash for subject.

I am trying to go from totally sucking to the place that I can feel a small amount of confidence.

Thanks guys for your advice.

Are you using a meter for the flash?

mdaddyrabbit wrote in post #16733350
I am trying to go from totally sucking to the place that I can feel a small amount of confidence.

LOL

you're on the right track.

the positioning of the ambient is important as well. If in direct sun you can put the sun behind and slightly to one side of the subject to get a rim light and separate the subject from the background. You might then blast the person with the flash from somewhere near the camera - or - You can put the sun at say a 45 degree angle to the front of the subject and then blast the flash from very close to the camera to fill in shadows - or - put the subject in the shade and use the flash to create depth - or - so on and so forth ...

either way, if you cannot change the ambient lighting, get it where you want it (physically and camera exposure) first then start in with the flash since you can change it. Do you have any gels for your flash? That will probably help too.

hes gone wrote in post #16733612
=he's gone;16733612]LOL

you're on the right track.

the positioning of the ambient is important as well. If in direct sun you can put the sun behind and slightly to one side of the subject to get a rim light and separate the subject from the background. You might then blast the person with the flash from somewhere near the camera - or - You can put the sun at say a 45 degree angle to the front of the subject and then blast the flash from very close to the camera to fill in shadows - or - put the subject in the shade and use the flash to create depth - or - so on and so forth ...

either way, if you cannot change the ambient lighting, get it where you want it (physically and camera exposure) first then start in with the flash since you can change it. Do you have any gels for your flash? That will probably help too.

So when you shoot your subjects indoors or outdoors you adjust for background first and then hit your subject with light from your light source?

Expose for the background, flash for the subject.

Leave the flash turned off, get everything EXCEPT the subject exposed appropriately, then bring in the flash to illuminate the subject.

Don't use ETTL if you have time to set up. ETTL is good for run-n-gun situations, events, etc - where you have one chance to get the shot and need a "pretty close" exposure.

So I should first meter the background in camera or light meter get the background in adjustment and then use the light to illuminate my subject? Do you guys actually meter the background?

mdaddyrabbit wrote in post #16733744
So I should first meter the background in camera or light meter get the background in adjustment and then use the light to illuminate my subject? Do you guys actually meter the background?

The way you do it based on preference and the look you want to achieve. I generally want to underexpose the ambient a bit so one method is to just meter the scene (I use a handheld meter, but its easy enough in the camera) and close down a stop. Using shutter speed, not aperture as the variable. You can chimp using your camera to see just how the base exposure handles the scene. Outside you might want to darken the sky to make clouds pop for instance; inside you might want to allow some architectural element show. Then add the flash and power it up and down accordingly.

If you have a handheld meter like the sekonic L358 it can help out greatly as when you are in flash meter mode it actually indicates the balance between flash and ambient. Thats great if you are looking to repeat a given look as you can grow to understand the effect of 80 ambient/20 percent flash versus 50/50 so forth.

mdaddyrabbit wrote in post #16733682
So when you shoot your subjects indoors or outdoors you adjust for background first and then hit your subject with light from your light source?

yes. Although I might not call it "adjusting for background". You still want the proper exposure on the subject. So make sure the ambient exposure for the subject is just under what you want, THEN you bring the subject up to the proper exposure by adding flash.

^ This is based on your desire to balance ambient and flash.

There are so many factors it is difficult to say exactly what you should do. For instance, if the shot is tight, the flash might be enough to fill the entire frame and ambient will be less important. If the shot is wide you are likely going to have to use mostly ambient and just a touch of fill to kill shadows and/or add some shape to the face/body.

Have you read this?

http://strobist.blogsp​ot.com/2006/03/lightin​g-101.html

If not, read it, then read it again.

I hesitate to post the direct link, but here is his page on balancing ambient and flash. It is part of the larger Lighting 101 tutorial in the link above:

http://strobist.blogsp​ot.com …-balancing-flash-and.html

Just make sure you read the whole thing, not just the balancing part.

Have you taken a look at this?

I seem to be able to darken the outdoor exposure but with my flash and the octobox I cannot seem to light the subject up in full daylight. Is the flash not strong enough to do this?

mdaddyrabbit wrote in post #16733788
I seem to be able to darken the outdoor exposure but with my flash and the octobox I cannot seem to light the subject up in full daylight. Is the flash not strong enough to do this?

Too much missing from your description to answer. How much are you underexposing the ambient and in what sort of light are we talking when you say darken the outdoor exposure? Also what sort of flash? To "overpower the sun" (darken the sky to twilight in midday) takes a lot of flash power, but can easily be done closer to dusk with a speedlight.