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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 04 Mar 2014 (Tuesday) 02:53
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Do you think Canon will respond to the Nikon D800?

 
gjl711
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Mar 04, 2014 18:40 |  #31

davidc502 wrote in post #16734695 (external link)
I don't think Canon's worried about Nikon or Sony. The bottom line is they are still selling more cameras that either. Until someone knocks them off their horse, they will continue on the same basic path that got them where they are today.

The problem with that thinking is once knocked off, it's very difficult to get back on top. The tech sector is filled with companies that once were at the top of the heap and today they are either gone or barely hanging on. Though Canon is still the market leaders, their base, P/C and compacts have pretty much fallen off a cliff in sales and even their SLR sector really took it on the chin the last two years.


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Mar 04, 2014 19:04 |  #32

gjl711 wrote in post #16734807 (external link)
The problem with that thinking is once knocked off, it's very difficult to get back on top. The tech sector is filled with companies that once were at the top of the heap and today they are either gone or barely hanging on. Though Canon is still the market leaders, their base, P/C and compacts have pretty much fallen off a cliff in sales and even their SLR sector really took it on the chin the last two years.

Agreed 100%. ^^^^^


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brettjrob
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Mar 04, 2014 21:41 |  #33

ERJL wrote in post #16734343 (external link)
There is a good interview with Canon execs posted right now at DP Review. It seems that Canon is as concerned with DSLR video performance as still frame. I don't think they judge their DSLR cameras by megapixels rather they seem to be targeting the sports, news and video photographer with their SYSTEM. Seems to be working as they are making money at it while other companies are struggling.

Those who are only concerned in numbers might indeed be happier elsewhere.

lol, you are unreal. "Only concerned about numbers," huh? Couldn't I say any given spec where Canon wins is just a number, too? 12 FPS... just a number. 51 AF points... just a number, who cares.

A more honest version of your statement would be: "those who are actually concerned with still image quality below ISO 6400 might indeed be happier elsewhere."

And I think that's fair. Your assessment that they are targeting a specific niche, and succeeding financially in doing so, is what some of us have been saying for awhile (frequently to protests). If you are outside that niche, it is increasingly hard to justify the Canon system. There's this common misconception among the masses that Canon and Nikon (at least) are basically the same thing dressed up in different clothes; it was accurate as little as 4-5 years ago, but it's becoming less and less true with time. Your style of shooting is a major factor in deciding which system is best for you these days.


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RayinAlaska
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Mar 04, 2014 22:05 |  #34

gjl711 wrote in post #16734807 (external link)
The problem with that thinking is once knocked off, it's very difficult to get back on top. The tech sector is filled with companies that once were at the top of the heap and today they are either gone or barely hanging on. Though Canon is still the market leaders, their base, P/C and compacts have pretty much fallen off a cliff in sales and even their SLR sector really took it on the chin the last two years.

Keep an eye on the market share, and you will see that both companies win some and lose some equally. Nikon and Canon have gone at it for years and years, and the war continues. The main difference now is that the camera and lens companies that were left in the dust by Canon and Nikon are filling the market voids relating to digital camera technologies. Sony too, is adding competition to Canon and Nikon, and this in turn will narrow the market share of both companies.

Nikon has more to lose to Sony than Cano, but I imagine that Nikon can either get into the sensor technology, or introduce sensors that are produced by companies other than Sony, and don't believe for a minute that Sony and Canon will dominate the sensor industry.




  
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RayinAlaska
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Mar 04, 2014 22:19 |  #35

mclaren777 wrote in post #16733790 (external link)
Canon won't achieve similar dynamic range until they update their ancient fabrication process.

But see, while some photographers are into landscape photography with cameras that include greater DR than the rest, other are using whichever cameras they have been using for landscapes for several years already.

The main difference in regards to the market share is which cameras are most used by the people taking photos, pro and non: most people are not just into landscapes, but into everything (studio, landscapes, taking pictures of their families, pets, and so on). While Sony may have a sensor that is capable of greater DR than Canon, the later is producing a sensor that has greater capabilities for high ISO/low noise photography. Besides that, there are other ways for people to use older cameras and still attain as much DR as needed. What did photographers do before the new sensor technology by Sony arrived to the market? Do you think that they just tossed their cameras in the trash because they lacked sufficient DR?

A few years ago, my Nikon-user friends were boasting about the high-ISO features offered by Nikon. Then Canon offered cameras with sensors that tackled high ISO, and that's about the time my Nikon friends began talking about higher DR from their Nikon cameras :)

I wonder what is next?




  
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Mar 04, 2014 22:31 |  #36

RayinAlaska wrote in post #16735236 (external link)
What did photographers do before the new sensor technology by Sony arrived to the market? Do you think that they just tossed their cameras in the trash because they lacked sufficient DR?

They bracketed. And if you want to continue lugging tripods into situations Exmor can handle without one, and pray there's no wind or subject movement, I guess Canon still works.


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RayinAlaska
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Mar 04, 2014 22:35 |  #37

brettjrob wrote in post #16735259 (external link)
They bracketed. And if you want to continue lugging tripods into situations Exmor can handle without one, and pray there's no wind or subject movement, I guess Canon still works.

Suure! That's why there aren't landscape photographers using Canon cameras.

I guess Art Wolfe switched to Sony already :D




  
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Mar 04, 2014 22:43 |  #38
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RayinAlaska wrote in post #16735265 (external link)
Suure! That's why there aren't landscape photographers using Canon cameras.

I guess Art Wolfe switched to Sony already :D

Just about any big name photographer gets sponsor money from the camera manufacturer. Art's series on photography just happened to be sponsored by Canon. Do you really think Art would use anything else other than Canon when the hand that feeds him is Canon?




  
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RayinAlaska
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Mar 04, 2014 22:51 |  #39

Hogloff wrote in post #16735278 (external link)
Just about any big name photographer gets sponsor money from the camera manufacturer. Art's series on photography just happened to be sponsored by Canon. Do you really think Art would use anything else other than Canon when the hand that feeds him is Canon?

So? What's wrong with that?

Lest say that you take landscapes photos....Would you rather do it free of charge, or for money? Some are fed by Canon, while others are fed by Nikon. It makes no difference, because these guys and girls are producing stunning images that make the rest of us drool, and with their inferior cameras.

My point is that those who are already established in their photography business aren't just jumping on a new technology, Sony sensor and DR in this case, and start from the ground up. The most renown landscape photographers are still using medium and large format film cameras along digital cameras. And the digital cameras being used are the top of the line cameras they have been using for years already.

The problem is that a lot of us spend more time playing with new toys than leaning to use the toys we bought yesterday. This does no lead to camera proficiency.




  
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Mar 04, 2014 22:56 |  #40

So what's the real benefit of higher dr? And does it diminish as you shoot at higher ISO? So the sony a7 is more capable than a 6d?




  
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Mar 04, 2014 23:02 |  #41

giballi wrote in post #16735302 (external link)
So what's the real benefit of higher dr? And does it diminish as you shoot at higher ISO? So the sony a7 is more capable than a 6d?

Which one is more capable?

a. The Sony sensor is capable of in-camera higher DR
b. The Canon sensor is capable of in-camera lower digital noise at high ISO speeds

Take you pick.

For my type of photography, I prefer the 6D over the A7r, but since I do just fine with a 7D and 5DII, I don't need to spend money on either one of those two. Both of my cameras use the same batteries ad chargers, and I can take several hundred photos between charges. Also, I have no need to bracket 99.9% or more of my photos.




  
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gjl711
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Mar 04, 2014 23:03 |  #42

But we aren't talking about the select few who have camera companies sponsoring them. Of course they are going to shoot the equipment of their sponsers. I thought we were discussing the tools themselves and when or if Canon is going to answer the challenge. One outstanding camera by a competitor isn't going to make most of us switch, we're too invested. But Canon has pretty much stalled at the 5DII for full frame and the 7D with crop offering only marginal improvements to in camera jpeg shooters. It's time they offer something to us still shooters of interest. If the new 7DII is a souped up 70D or the D800 replacement is something better than the current D800, Canon runs a serious risk loosing some loyal customers.


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RayinAlaska
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Mar 04, 2014 23:12 |  #43

gjl711 wrote in post #16735317 (external link)
But we aren't talking about the select few who have camera companies sponsoring them. Of course they are going to shoot the equipment of their sponsers. I thought we were discussing the tools themselves and when or if Canon is going to answer the challenge. One outstanding camera by a competitor isn't going to make most of us switch, we're too invested. But Canon has pretty much stalled at the 5DII for full frame and the 7D with crop offering only marginal improvements to in camera jpeg shooters. It's time they offer something to us still shooters of interest. If the new 7DII is a souped up 70D or the D800 replacement is something better than the current D800, Canon runs a serious risk loosing some loyal customers.

There two companies have gone at each other for years and years. While the D800 may be a better camera for some, those who don't have it are doing fine with other cameras. I don't think that it makes any difference to those who are invested with a system or another, specially nowadays with numerous camera sensor technologies emerging from Asia. There is no way that the average person can keep up with the latest and greatest technology. I am talking about sensors that were dreamed of ten years ago. If Canon can't improve their sensor technology, then it will have no choise but to buy sensors produced by other companies, much like Apple had to put "Intel inside" its computers. Nikon is using Sony sensors, right?

Trying to keep up with technology? Take a look at this old news:
http://www.therichest.​com …xpensive-digital-cameras/ (external link)

But the new sensor to be introduced in the very near future is the "organic CMOS image sensor." That's the new sensor to be used in new cameras within a year or so.




  
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Mar 04, 2014 23:30 |  #44

agedbriar wrote in post #16734326 (external link)
You are aware that pixel count alone won't eliminate all image degradation induced by cropping, aren't you?

No I wasn't aware. I have been very impressed with what I have seen of cropped Nikon 800 images.


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Mar 04, 2014 23:59 |  #45

Canon responded by buying more Sony share;
Then Sony stab Nikon on its back to bring out a7 & a7R ;)


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