canon 6D

I presently have a 60D that I wish to upgrade. I am retired and into general photos.
I love the menu system and the fact that I can adjust most of the functions that I use from the quick control screen.
Heres the problem. The 60D has an inboard flash; the 6D does not. What lighting conditions am I limited to without an inboard flash. Or to put it another way, when will I have to use the outboard flash and what type or model should it be.

The onboard flash for the APS-Cs are pretty harsh, and generally not proficient at producing quality photos, they are more of an emergency fix.

If you want something close to the onboard flash, look at the 270EXII, it is a very compact flash without all the bells and whistles of the 400/500 series flashes.

mdkinney wrote in post #16743728
I presently have a 60D that I wish to upgrade. I am retired and into general photos.
I love the menu system and the fact that I can adjust most of the functions that I use from the quick control screen.
Heres the problem. The 60D has an inboard flash; the 6D does not. What lighting conditions am I limited to without an inboard flash. Or to put it another way, when will I have to use the outboard flash and what type or model should it be.

get an external flash (430exII or Yongnuo, etc.) and learn to bounce the light

I've been using Canon digital for about 5 years. I have never used the pop-up flash on any of them to light a photo. The 60D is good for controlling two groups, though. Buy yourself a 580EX II. You'll love it.

The onboard flashes are pretty worthless...

They are in the worst possible place for redeye and ugly shadows (close to and right above the lens axis). They also are weak, slow to recycle and rapidly drain the camera's batteries.

For those reasons, I hardly ever use a built in flash. (On one of my 7Ds the built in flash has been stuck since new.... now 4.5 years old with about 100,000 clicks on it, I've never fixed the flash even though it's easy DIY).

So, if you ask me, don't let the lack of a horrible little built-in flash stop you from buying an otherwise very nice camera.

Just get an accessory flash.... Though I suggest also spending a little more to also get an off-camera shoe cord and a flash bracket, to get even better results from it.

OTOH, not sure what you are expecting from the "upgrade".

Unless you regularly make big prints.... really big prints, probably larger than 16x24"... you aren't going to see a great deal of benefit from going from 60D cropper to 6D FF camera. You won't see much difference in 8x10s and 11x14s... and certainly nothing noticeable for any online image uses.

Another reason you might want a FF is if you shoot a lot of low light/high ISO images. The 6D is probably good for another one or two stops high ISO. The 6D's AF system is able to focus in exceptonally low light, too... Center point only is good to -3EV (moonlight)... the other points are same as 60D's at -1EV. 6D has 11 AF points, only the center one is the better "dual axis/cross" type. 60D has 9 AF points, however all of them are better "dual axis/cross" type. 60D has that useful articulated LCD screen. 6D doesn't.

Any EF-S or third party "crop only" lenses will need to be replaced, going to FF. Plus lenses for FF tend to be larger, heavier and more expensive (especially telephotos).

But if you really have your sights set on 6D, if it were me I wouldn't worry about the lack of a flash.

GaryD wrote in post #16744173
I've been using Canon digital for about 5 years. I have never used the pop-up flash on any of them to light a photo. The 60D is good for controlling two groups, though. Buy yourself a 580EX II. You'll love it.

I forgot to add - I used a 5D (no built-in flash) for some time. I am now using a 6D,which also has no built-in flash, and have never thought that I needed a pop-up flash. If you have been using the pop-up, there is a good chance your photography will improve when you no longer have access to it.

In harsh Indian outdoor sun, onboard flash does a reasonable job as fill in flash. I usually walk around with 430 mounted. Wish had built in flash for outdoor.

I disagree with everyone saying onboard flash is worthless... that's the only real advantage to me of the D600 over the 6D. When used directly without any flash adjustments, yes, it's too bright. But if you use a card to bounce it (always kept a business card with me for this purpose when using my T2i) or dial it down a bit for the situation, it can be a real picture saver.

That said, I agree with the others in saying that you could just pick up a small external flash. There are a few knock-off flashes on Amazon that have pretty good ratings and would make great substitutes for an onboard flash, thinking about picking one up myself.

http://www.amazon.com …995&sr=1-2&keywords=small

mdkinney wrote in post #16743728
I presently have a 60D that I wish to upgrade. I am retired and into general photos.
I love the menu system and the fact that I can adjust most of the functions that I use from the quick control screen.
Heres the problem. The 60D has an inboard flash; the 6D does not. What lighting conditions am I limited to without an inboard flash. Or to put it another way, when will I have to use the outboard flash and what type or model should it be.

It is difficult to answer this without knowing what sort of pictures you take.

I agree the on-board flash is not worthless, but not ideal either.

Advantages of a speedlite depending on model, are:

a) Bounce and swivel head for flash inside, people shots etc, you need a neutral tones wall or ceiling for this to work, but that is normal the case, gives nice soft light.

b) High speed flash, use this for fill-in flash when shooting subjects in bright harsh daylight, this lifts the shadows.

The 430ex II is a good mid range model that will do the above.

There are a host of other reasons to get an external flash even if you have a an on-board one. If you need to find out more "Speedliter's Handbook: Learning to Craft Light with Canon Speedlites", Syl Arena will tell you more than you thought there was to know.

I am not sure you have a reason to upgrade from the 60D to the 6D other than you want a new bit of kit - which is fine