Arrgg..how to handle this...

porky101 wrote in post #16807851
Ill ask you this moose, If someone was unhappy with your service, would you refund them because of that reasoning?

If they genuinely had a valid reason I would work with the client to come a mutually satisfactory solution whether it may be a partial or full refund, or a reshoot, or something else depending on the circumstances.

However, I would NEVER go back on my word. If I agree to a reshoot, they will get a reshoot. If I agree to a refund, they will get their refund.

Can i ask you why you put such emphasis on "Never go back on my word"?

I have already answered that I would go back on my word and explained my reasons, why would you NEVER go back on your word?

porky101 wrote in post #16807911
Can i ask you why you put such emphasis on "Never go back on my word"?

I have already answered that I would go back on my word and explained my reasons, why would you NEVER go back on your word?

Because if you go back on your word about one thing how is a client supposed to know you will not do the same with other things. Once they lose trust in you then its hard to get back.

I think its all about communication.

If you change your mind and tell them why, they are welcome to respond. Did I mention this, Once I told her I was not refunding her she never responded to my written message?
What does that tell you? Maybe she even agree's with me? I dont know?

I never messaged her "sorry changed my mind no refund"

I messaged her telling her I changed my mind and giving her a list of reasons why. She never responded. But her friends family did.

Ye, too true..Do i regret not following through with the refund.....thats a tough one to answer. On the one hand, yes I did tell them and I hate going back on my word. It probably would have been the easiest route to take aswell, refund them and finished. On the other hand what is the right thing to do? I did my part, they have the pictures and she was happy with it to begin with. I dont see how my offer for a refund is even valid when i think about it...problem is I opened lots of doors by communicating with the wrong people and not standing my ground. Anyways its really over now and this point is even getting tiresome for myself.

Lesson: Never offer a refund so hastily. Look at the facts before opening your mouth and avoid distrust in the process.

porky101 wrote in post #16807911
Can i ask you why you put such emphasis on "Never go back on my word"?

When you start doing that (to anyone, not just a customer) it creates a huge amount of animosity (not to mention the fact that it's dishonest). You've now created the appearance that you're not trustworthy. You absolutely will not succeed in business treating people like that.

Have you ever heard the term "choose your battles"? I see many posts on here about someone not giving the customer a refund or not pulling down photos of a customer, etc. because a photographer is within their legal rights not to do so. But think about what very little it's going to cost to acquiesce to the customer's wishes instead of fighting them tooth and nail. You've created a ton of ill-will, in the long run I bet it ends up costing you way more than $60 (whether you ever know about it or not). If you lose out on just one job because your customer tells her friends and her friends-friends about you, you're instantly out way more than that.

Chances are she doesn't care what your reasons are for changing your mind. Likely all she cares about is you said refund and now changed your mind. No matter your reasons... the customer likely sees that you lied to her.

I normally would say try putting yourself in your customers position. But a similar scenario was presented to you...

the flying moose wrote in post #16807633
Say you bought a tv from a store, and decided after a week that you were unhappy with it and wanted to return it. So you call them and they tell you yeah we will give you a refund, then when you bring the tv back they tell you they changed your mind. You would be fine with that and think that's an acceptable way to do business??

and your response

"Not even close to the same thing."

It is the same thing. I don't think you'll find a clearer explanation, I also don't think you'll find many successful business people who agree with your choices.

Im really not worried about them telling their friends etc etc. I could not care about that, the birthday girl has probably told half the country. good for her. Ill enjoy it when she still see's me as the photographer at her friends weddings.

But you are right in what you have said.....and as I said earlier....lessons learned.

Its not the same thing??? its a Tv and the person needed to travel waisting petrol and time to get to the store, depending on the size of the TV probably tiresome too. My situation is different.

porky101 wrote in post #16807957
Ill enjoy it when she still see's me as the photographer at her friends weddings.

Well I don't see that happening but I applaud your optimism.

porky101 wrote in post #16807957
Its not the same thing??? its a Tv and the person needed to travel waisting petrol and time to get to the store. My situation is different.

Are you intentionally being dense? Change the word tv to photos. At this point I can't believe you don't see how it's the same. The person with the tv (photos) was told they could get a refund. Then was told shortly later no refund for the tv (photos). Would you be upset about being lied to about the refund?

What I am trying to get to, is HER. She never lost anything by me changing my mind. She never lost time. She never stressed any further. She never lost any additional money. Thats what I am getting at.

Just because I put the phone down does that mean the conversation is over? I messaged her again right away.

We'll see.

porky101 wrote in post #16807983
What I am trying to get to, is HER. She never lost anything by me changing my mind. She never lost time. She never stressed any further. She never lost any additional money. Thats what I am getting at.

Explain to me why she should care what your reasoning or point of view is? She may not have lost anything additional but you sure have... and over $60.

I've paid in excess of $6000 to repair an oops that wasn't technically my businesses fault but I would be hard to prove it wasn't in court. So to save the hassle and to keep a loyal customer I took care of it all... with a smile. Seven years later that family still comes to me and they have paid me over $27k (I just looked up their records) since then. $27k I might have lost out on if I had not handled it as I did.

My point being is you WILL screw up. I guarantee it. It's all in how you handle those mistakes that separate you from all the others.

Something you need to know. Some mothers will back up and protect their kids no matter, even if they break laws in an awful manner. I would not take that that seriously. You made a few mistakes, learn from them, ignore this event and time to move on from that shoot and this thread. You will never win in either arena. And take the good advice that has been given - never back-pedal on something you say.

porky101 wrote in post #16807889
And you know what....they are still successful.

...so far you've had a photoshoot that was gifted to you from a friend that you sold for a grand total of $60.00 that you managed to comprehensively screw up. You are not on track to be the next google.

When you have millions of customers and you have millions of dollars rolling in the door you can afford to loose the odd customer.

Google and McDonalds sell specific unique products and services that people are will to exchange money for. The service that you offer is far from unique. There are a handful of search engines out there that make money. There are only a few world-wide fast food chains. There are millions of photographers and very few of those photographers offer unique products and services.

Do you want to make money? Seriously? Then stop arguing with us and start listening.

You aren't planning for success. You are setting yourself up for failure.

If you were planning for success: you would be stepping back from this thread and taking time to evaluate the best way for you to move forward. You would accept that you don't actually have a lot of experience dealing with customers and people and you would be listening and accepting what we are telling you. You would stop arguing. You would have a written business plan and if you hadn't you would be starting a thread asking for help on writing one.

This forum is full of people that are willing to help you, that have have years of experience running successful photography businesses and can help you get to where you want to be. But it appears you have woken up this morning and decided to act like a petulant child. I mean drug-dealing terrorists? Seriously? It is obvious you've decided to re-enter the thread and just argue with people now. You have convinced yourself that people "hate you" and that we are "attacking you" and that couldn't be further from the truth. People are trying to help you. When you finally recognize that, stop with the childish behaviour you've now decided to adopt, you might just have a chance.

Are you still too scared to answer the phone? Still communicating with them via text because you don't have the guts to talk to them face to face?

Feeding your ego and going after revenge are terrible business motivators. Work to seperate your ego from your work. Sort this stuff out now so you don't have to deal with it again in six months time. And you won't be afraid to answer your phone.

Yep...thats why im here learning. Thank you for giving me the advice you have given, that goes to most of the people here too.


Banquetbear, If you are posting here to try and help me, please dont waist any more of your time. I have stopped reading your post's when you told me to put my big boy pants on.

If you want to post here for any other reason then do so, but just telling you, don't post for me.

porky101 wrote in post #16808057
Banquetbear, If you are posting here to try and help me, please dont waist any more of your time. I have stopped reading your post's when you told me to put my big boy pants on.

If you want to post here for any other reason then do so, but just telling you, don't post for me.

This proves Banquetbear's point exactly. Also demonstrates you are not learning. You really should get over your ego and listen to Banquetbear, his advice is spot on.