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Thread started 24 Mar 2014 (Monday) 19:29
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70D Sports Mode -> Custom Mode and lens question

 
JohnCalif
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Mar 24, 2014 19:29 |  #1

Very new 70D user.

I started using Sports Mode for lacrosse games but noticed a Custom Setting Accel./Decel. Tracking set to +1 would be better than the default 0 because the players move unpredictably. I wish I could just use Sports Mode and tweak that setting, but I realize Custom settings are only for Creative Zones, excluding Sports Mode. Unfortunate.

1) Is there a simple way to copy all the settings from Sports Mode to Custom Mode, then make the above change? If that is not possible, is there some place (couldn't find it in the documentation) that details every Sports Mode setting that I could input 1 by 1 into Custom Mode?

2) I realize there is only 1 Custom Mode on the camera. Is there any way to store multiple Custom Modes on an SD card and load specific setting for a given Custom Mode?

3) In the 70D Digital Field Guide, Charlotte Lowrie mentions (pp. 136-137) in the Autofocus System section that cross-type functionality depends on the max aperture of the lens and the specific lenses. She lists several lenses and states you can get more accurate and faster focusing with those lenses. I don't understand the details here, but I was told the Tamron SP 70-300mm F/4-5.6 Di VC USD Model A005E would offer fast autofocusing. Is this correct or would it be better to get the Canon model?

Thanks,

John




  
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Mar 24, 2014 20:13 |  #2

Use TV, AV or M only.

problem solved.


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Mar 24, 2014 20:27 |  #3

Hi John, welcome to POTN. You will usually get several answers very quickly on here, to most questions, but this one is probably not getting much response because few on here like to leave things up to the camera. I doubt there are many who use modes such as sports mode.

OK, I will try and help but I don't have a 70D and don't use modes such as sports mode, I also don't use the custom modes although they can be quite useful.

As I understand it, sports mode is simply another version of full auto (AKA "green box" mode) where the camera bases it's decisions around trying to keep a faster shutter speed than in the other auto modes. As such, there are no simple settings to transfer, the camera will change them as the light changes.

However, you are probably better off getting out of the full auto modes and learning the basics of shutter speed, aperture and ISO and taking over control of at least one of those settings, or even two. When you leave everything to the camera to decide, it can make some really poor decisions sometimes. The biggest issue is that the full auto modes don't allow you to select a focus point, so the camera gets to decide what IT thinks the subject is, and that is likely to be the nearest thing. So you can end up with shots beautifully focused on the linesman at the left of frame, and the players you were shooting out of focus.

To keep things simple, and keep a strong element of automation, you can move into the creative zones and use either Tv or Av instead. In Tv, you set the shutter speed and ISO you wish to use and the camera will set an appropriate aperture for you. You could set auto ISO as well, in which case you just set the shutter speed you want to freeze the action (or provide background motion blur when panning etc) and the camera will deal with aperture and ISO for you. It will be just like using sports mode but you set the shutter speed.

To choose a shutter speed, with action, a good guide for handholding is to keep to a minimum of 1/focal length x 1.6. So if using the 70-300mm lens you mentioned, you want a shutter speed that can deal with 300mm, so that would be 1/300th x1.6, meaning that you would want a shutter speed of 1/500th or faster (rounding off to actual shutter speeds you can select), Switch to Tv, set 1/500 and then shoot as you do now, if you have auto ISO on.

As you would now be in the creative zones, the camera will open up all the advanced settings and allow you to set your AF tracking how you like it. You also get to decide which player on the field is the subject and place your chosen focus point on them.

With regards to aperture and crosstype focus points, I would imagine most of your cross type points need f/5.6 or faster lenses to work properly (I don't have a 70D as I say, so I am assuming to a degree here, but your manual should give the details). Your centre AF point is likely to have an extra crosstype element which will allow better AF, but that will need lenses with f/2.8 or faster apertures. The one you mention will work with all your focus points, and can take advantage of the cross type points as it is f/5.6, but the high accuracy extra element on the centre point won't come into action because the lens does not let in enough light. You would need an f/2.8 lens for that.

As for how fast that lens will AF, I don't know. Some models of lenses are faster than others and it isn't about the AF points on the camera, it is about the motors in the lenses and how fast they can physically move the glass. The crosstype points are more about extra accuracy rather than speed, although in low light that extra capability to read horizontal and vertical lines (rather than just one) can speed things up a bit if it would otherwise have trouble getting a lock.




  
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JohnCalif
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Mar 24, 2014 20:52 as a reply to  @ sandpiper's post |  #4

Hi sandpiper,

Thanks for the welcome and excellent reply. Although I'm new to the 70D, I have a background from the days when things were done manually - much of the automation didn't work well at all. I took sports photos for a major newspaper using Nikon F3 HPs and some pretty big lenses.

The way I was thinking about approaching the 70D was to start with an automatic mode supposedly "optimized" for sports, then 1 by 1 make changes until I had one or more sets of settings that worked for specific situations. Just a different way to skin the cat but if this approach is not the most feasible, then I can go from the ground up and configure specific items.

Thanks again, also for the lens discussion. Need to digest that.

John




  
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MalVeauX
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Mar 24, 2014 20:59 |  #5

JohnCalif wrote in post #16783614 (external link)
Very new 70D user.

I started using Sports Mode for lacrosse games but noticed a Custom Setting Accel./Decel. Tracking set to +1 would be better than the default 0 because the players move unpredictably. I wish I could just use Sports Mode and tweak that setting, but I realize Custom settings are only for Creative Zones, excluding Sports Mode. Unfortunate.

1) Is there a simple way to copy all the settings from Sports Mode to Custom Mode, then make the above change? If that is not possible, is there some place (couldn't find it in the documentation) that details every Sports Mode setting that I could input 1 by 1 into Custom Mode?

2) I realize there is only 1 Custom Mode on the camera. Is there any way to store multiple Custom Modes on an SD card and load specific setting for a given Custom Mode?

3) In the 70D Digital Field Guide, Charlotte Lowrie mentions (pp. 136-137) in the Autofocus System section that cross-type functionality depends on the max aperture of the lens and the specific lenses. She lists several lenses and states you can get more accurate and faster focusing with those lenses. I don't understand the details here, but I was told the Tamron SP 70-300mm F/4-5.6 Di VC USD Model A005E would offer fast autofocusing. Is this correct or would it be better to get the Canon model?

Thanks,

John

Heya,

I wouldn't use pre-set modes or any of that. Just learn your camera, learn photography in general, and then let your tool work for you where it does well, but don't let it choose too many variables that contribute to exposure, when it comes to fast moving stuff. You can use semi-auto modes reliably on more static things, but when it comes to sports/fast stuff, you really want to get a handle on exposure yourself.

1. Shoot RAW. This lets you figure white balance later, and is easier to clean up (ISO noise).

2. I would shoot manual. Or when doing sports, Tv mode as the only semi-automatic mode. Why? Shutter speed is very important. A blurry image is just not going to do anything for you, regardless of exposure. Fast moving things require faster shutter speeds, unless you're using flash. That's a whole other story though. When doing soccer games, I'm shooting 1/400~1/640s as a minimum, but usually end up in the 1/1600~1/2000 range quite quickly. I shoot manual. I put my aperture where I want it for exposure and depth of field, based on that shutter value. I make up the rest with ISO. I enjoy AUTO ISO with a cap, to make up for my metering should a shadow cast or something occur. I pre-meter areas of where I'm shooting to have an idea of where I need to be for exposure purposes. I let my variable be ISO before I let it be shutter/aperture, when it comes to fast moving things (sports, birds, kids, etc). And I expose a wee bit to the right, so that at worst, I'm normally exposed, or slightly over-exposed.

3. Autofocus speed is based on a few things, but the main things to consider are the mechanism/drive of the lens (USM for example on Canon), and the maximum aperture of the lens. Some drives/mechanisms are faster than others. And your camera will use the maximum aperture of the lens for autofocus purposes, regardless of what you dial in for aperture for your shots. So a F2.8 aperture zoom will more likely have faster locks and more accurate locks for autofocus, than something with a maximum of F5.6. Especially in lower light situations.

4. Choose your focus points for what you're doing; I would go with the center point for a fast moving object (sports) so that you can track a person, instead of grabbing several people in several of your AF points.

Very best,


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12Rock
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Mar 24, 2014 21:05 |  #6

hey John , I have the 70D and shot lax . When I first got the 70 I wanted to see the results of sports mode , It was not as good as I thought it would , Prob what you are seeing . I don’t know if this helps but I would shoot in Manual , Start with setting a custom white balance, Go with a 2.8 -3.5 Ap when shooting play on the field , check your shutter Sp by the meter . Spot meter on the one center point. Sunny day morn to early afternoon ISO 100- 250, cloudy to late afternoon 800 . test it out your shot and adjust ...[URL]http://[URL=ht​tps://www.flickr.com/p​hotos/94328868@N05/132​54080144/]

(DUPLICATE IMAGE)
[URL=[URL]https://www.​flickr.com/photos/9432​8868@N05/13254080144/]​Untitled by [URL=[URL]https://www.​flickr.com/people/9432​8868@N05/]12rock, on Flickr



  
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JohnCalif
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Mar 24, 2014 22:21 as a reply to  @ 12Rock's post |  #7

MalVeauX - thanks - very good points. I know RAW vs JPEG has been discussed extensively. One point favoring JPEG is burst mode speed, but I guess the counter to that is anticipate the right moment and don't depend on continuous sequences.

12Rock - really nice lax pic. I shot one game with Sports Mode. Fairly high percentage of throwaways, but I kind of expect that in general. Will try your settings and see what happens. Pretty new to shooting lax. Shooting youth games and the challenge is it's so unpredictable. Thx again.




  
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Mar 25, 2014 02:49 as a reply to  @ JohnCalif's post |  #8

For sports, there are of course different reasons to use the different exposure modes. I'll briefly list the advantages.

P: No advantage at all, really.
Tv: Keeps shutter speed constant. For situations where you want to have a certain motion blur, this is often good, provided you also want automatic exposure.
Av: Keeps aperture constant. Sometimes you want to use the lens fully open, to blur the background, or light is low, so you want to use it fully open to at least get as short exposure time as is possible. Can be combined with Auto ISO and auto longest allowed exposure time in varying light, to provide automation also considering the current focal length. But the shutter speed limit will then be optimized for things standing still, not for high speed sports pictures, so that may be of limited value in this application.
M: Keeps both aperture and shutter speed constant, and thus exposure as a whole (provided you have a fixed ISO setting). Good if you are shooting sportsmen with different color tones on their clothes, as otherwise a "white team" will not meter the same as the "black team". Nowadays, M can be combined with Auto ISO, if you want to keep a certain exposure time (motion blur) and aperture (background blur), but still have automatic exposure. Main drawback then is that as of today, only the 1DX will allow you to influence the exposure level in that mode.

Autofocus: The speed of the AF is related to how well the lens works with the camera. High accuracy AF requires at least f/2.8 and center point with your camera (70D). But low light performance isn't related to the max aperture of the lens, since the AF system has its own aperture anyway. It's just the physical size of the aperture that's important, due to the spread of lightrays coming in, not the amount of light coming in. Thus using an f/2 lens with a point outside the center one will not give any better performance, not even in low light, than an f/5.6 lens.

Not using the sports mode is essential for sports photography in general, even if that sounds utterly backwards. The reason is that you can usually not get rid of using all AF points at the same time in the preprogrammed modes, but there are only a few occasions when using all points at the same time actually is the right thing to do. With the 1DX I've experimented a bit more with using all points, but the reason it works pretty good in some of these situations is the iTR system in the 1DX (intelligent subject Tracking and Recognition), where an additional 100 kpixel sensor evaluates the color of the subjects, and directs the AF system to track that particular pink shirt, or whatever it is you are aiming at. Currently, only the 1DX in the EOS range supports this. With a 70D, selecting a single point is usually your best option. A single point with expansion is my favorite in that class of cameras, for the kind of sports I shoot, but it takes a 7D to support that.

Whether you want to use RAW or jpeg depends on the situation and what you intend to do with your pictures. Sports shot in good daylight, where the final destination for the images is a web album or Facebook, you can just as well shoot in jpeg. Nobody will ever notice the difference.
Sports shot in low and/or artificial light will come out better in RAW. The drawback with RAW, and that's the only drawback, is the file size. You'll need 3-4 times the storage to hold your files, something which can be essential if you want to shoot a lot.

It states above that RAW vs. jpeg affects burst mode speed, but it doesn't. Only burst mode length, before the buffer is full.
It states above that AF speed also depends on max aperture, but I've already been through that. It doesn't. Except that lenses with large openings often also have high performance AF motors, but the relationship there is financial, not optical.


Anders

  
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watt100
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Mar 25, 2014 09:32 |  #9

JohnCalif wrote in post #16783614 (external link)
Very new 70D user.

I started using Sports Mode for lacrosse games but noticed a Custom Setting Accel./Decel. Tracking set to +1 would be better than the default 0 because the players move unpredictably. I wish I could just use Sports Mode and tweak that setting, but I realize Custom settings are only for Creative Zones, excluding Sports Mode. Unfortunate.

1) Is there a simple way to copy all the settings from Sports Mode to Custom Mode, then make the above change? If that is not possible, is there some place (couldn't find it in the documentation) that details every Sports Mode setting that I could input 1 by 1 into Custom Mode?

2) I realize there is only 1 Custom Mode on the camera. Is there any way to store multiple Custom Modes on an SD card and load specific setting for a given Custom Mode?

3) In the 70D Digital Field Guide, Charlotte Lowrie mentions (pp. 136-137) in the Autofocus System section that cross-type functionality depends on the max aperture of the lens and the specific lenses. She lists several lenses and states you can get more accurate and faster focusing with those lenses. I don't understand the details here, but I was told the Tamron SP 70-300mm F/4-5.6 Di VC USD Model A005E would offer fast autofocusing. Is this correct or would it be better to get the Canon model?

Thanks,

John

I agree with the other comments, get out of the green box sports preset and use the "creative" modes where you pick the shutter, aperture, and iso. AI servo helps. And definitely shoot in RAW for flexibility in processing

not 70D
but lacrosse with 60D with Canon 100-400


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Mar 25, 2014 10:04 as a reply to  @ watt100's post |  #10

I'm using the following settings for ice hockey:

Tracking sensitivity: 0
Accel./Decel. Tracking: 0
AI Servo 1st image priority: Focus
AI Servo 2nd image priority: Focus

It is working well for me.


Shelley
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Mar 25, 2014 10:06 as a reply to  @ neacail's post |  #11

Conservative settings. Have you evaluated anything else, to see if the result is the same, better or worse?


Anders

  
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Mar 25, 2014 10:10 |  #12

neacail wrote in post #16784855 (external link)
I'm using the following settings for ice hockey:

Tracking sensitivity: 0
Accel./Decel. Tracking: 0
AI Servo 1st image priority: Focus
AI Servo 2nd image priority: Focus

It is working well for me.


i found out with these settings that sometimes i miss the shot when object is near to me and i have TELE lens attached.

I solved this problem by setting AI servo 1st image priority to : balanced
and left 2nd image priority to focus.

then, shutter is always freed for first image and rest images are prioritized for perfect infocus.


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Mar 25, 2014 10:14 |  #13

apersson850 wrote in post #16784859 (external link)
Conservative settings. Have you evaluated anything else, to see if the result is the same, better or worse?

Yes. I spent a few weeks, shooting hockey 2-5 times a week, trying to get it sorted out. Traditionally I'm a landscape photographer, not a sports photographer. The process was horribly painful. I've now been shooting hockey 2-5 times a week for six months, and I haven't changed my custom function settings since January. I'm satisfied with them.

I'm now confident that I can't do anything other than improve my skills to improve my photographs. ;) I use my 70D and 70-200 for hockey.


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JohnCalif
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Mar 25, 2014 13:05 as a reply to  @ neacail's post |  #14

Another thanks, in addition to the guys I already thanked, to Anders for the detailed, excellent advice. Particularly enjoyed your statement: "Not using the sports mode is essential for sports photography in general, even if that sounds utterly backwards."

I have changed my approach as a result of the advice here. I always intended to use the Creative Modes but thought I'd start with Sports Mode as an initial crutch and modify from there. But it seems that Sports Mode is a poor foundation to start with and I'm better off selecting individual settings and fine tuning as I go along.




  
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watt100
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Mar 25, 2014 16:19 |  #15

JohnCalif wrote in post #16785301 (external link)
But it seems that Sports Mode is a poor foundation to start with and I'm better off selecting individual settings and fine tuning as I go along.

with sports shooting you also need knowledge of those settings to get a high shutter speed so experiment with all the elements of the "exposure triangle". And sports shooting requires getting in a good position and shooting low with the sun at your back, etc.




  
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70D Sports Mode -> Custom Mode and lens question
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