6D & 5D3 Raw images @ 12,800

gabebalazs wrote in post #16784916
Banding. Even though Canon sensors in general are behind Sony's, there are still differences within the Canon brand itself. The 6D handles pushing shadows much better than the 5DIII. Again, to most people it may be a non-issue, they may never encounter the need for that in their shooting, but to some people it may matter.

I can't see any difference here either, pushing shadows on both cameras will get banding. Their dynamic range is pretty much the same.

Okay Talley, so I downloaded your raw files, there are virtually no difference between the two at least in the middle of the frame, perhaps 1/3 stop.

What is your workflow that makes you think the 6D is so much better? One thing I can point out when looking in DPP, you had different picture styles set for both cameras (which affects the JPG or visual rep of the raw when using DPP), and the in-camera NR values are different in the 6D vs 5D3. The 6D is more aggressive (11/13) vs the 5D3 (8/12), which means Canon recognizes that the 6D actually has more luminescent noise that has to be reduced, I suspect.

Here is a 100% crop from DPP where I equalized the picture style parameters, and slide the NR sliders to 0 across both raws. The 6D is on the left, 5D3 is on the right.

The 2nd one is in the shadows area by the bar. The difference is a bit more pronounced, but still within 1/2 stop perhaps?

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16784959
Okay Talley, so I downloaded your raw files, there are virtually no difference between the two at least in the middle of the frame, perhaps 1/3 stop.

What is your workflow that makes you think the 6D is so much better? One thing I can point out when looking in DPP, you had different picture styles set for both cameras (which affects the JPG or visual rep of the raw when using DPP), and the in-camera NR values are different in the 6D vs 5D3. The 6D is more aggressive (11/13) vs the 5D3 (8/12), which means Canon recognizes that the 6D actually has more luminescent noise that has to be reduced, I suspect.

Here is a 100% crop from DPP where I equalized the picture style parameters, and slide the NR sliders to 0 across both raws. The 6D is on the left, 5D3 is on the right.

The 2nd one is in the shadows area by the bar. The difference is a bit more pronounced, but still within 1/2 stop perhaps?

HHHmmmmm...been to an optrician lately? The right/5D3 is so bad it make me throw up in my mouth!

RedCatPhoto wrote in post #16784958
I can't see any difference here either, pushing shadows on both cameras will get banding. Their dynamic range is pretty much the same.

There is still a bit of difference, clearly more banding in the 5DIII image, you'll see it here, especially at 100%. But of course these are pretty extreme examples. Both are behind the newer Sony sensors but since I never do this kind of abuse, I'm not concerned about this.

6D

5DIII

Bakewell wrote in post #16784989
HHHmmmmm...been to an optrician lately? The right/5D3 is so bad it make me throw up in my mouth!

Been to a doctor lately, that isn't normal... but given the bile you exude in some of the other threads, perhaps it is?

Now back to seriousness, it is only about 1/3 stop to 1/2 depending on where you look, and this is on an IPS calibrated monitor, or at least calibrated, whatever model U2412M is, it's work provided so I don't know what the IT dept buys us. What I really see is the same thing we saw on the 5D2, the mazing effect on the 5D3. There is a bit of sharpening artifacts that is causing some issues on the 5D3. I will have to pull up the raw to drill into that a bit. Some of you might have remembered that issue...

EDIT: I went back and looked at the sharpening settings. I had moved the unsharp mask strength down, but left the other 2 sliders alone. This time I moved both to the sharpness setting, and set them both to 1. A bit better on the mazing effect, but I am actually seeing it on both, just more on the 5D3. The difference is so minor that a very tiny tweak to my actions set would equalize them very easily.

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #16784945
You can add the EG-S screen to this list, for me that was a huge selling point of the 6D

Which is installed on mine. I don't even have the original screen

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16784959
Okay Talley, so I downloaded your raw files, there are virtually no difference between the two at least in the middle of the frame, perhaps 1/3 stop.

What is your workflow that makes you think the 6D is so much better? One thing I can point out when looking in DPP, you had different picture styles set for both cameras (which affects the JPG or visual rep of the raw when using DPP), and the in-camera NR values are different in the 6D vs 5D3. The 6D is more aggressive (11/13) vs the 5D3 (8/12), which means Canon recognizes that the 6D actually has more luminescent noise that has to be reduced, I suspect.

Here is a 100% crop from DPP where I equalized the picture style parameters, and slide the NR sliders to 0 across both raws. The 6D is on the left, 5D3 is on the right.

The 2nd one is in the shadows area by the bar. The difference is a bit more pronounced, but still within 1/2 stop perhaps?

I only use Lightroom so I cannot comment on DPP. Ya I might of forgotten to make sure every parameter was exact but for my understanding Lightroom takes the raw and only uses the raw data and does not apply any thing like DLO and such.

The center image of the bag I notice the "Speckles" more on the 5D3. It's just more speckled than the 6D. I notice it. I cannot comment on how many stops it is but I notice it. I can notice it in the web image 1024 on the back wall under the "Love" sign.

Tonight I will print and that will be my deciding factor. Like I said I will print 13x19 both and then do a 50% crop and again print both at 13x19.

My workflow is import into LR. My sharpening is basically setup for 38/.8/30/25 and on FF I haven't had the need for any noise reduction at all. Maybe on the 12,800+ I'll apply the luminance slider to about a 10 but thats it. Nothing major at all. I enjoy the noise of the FF.

Really I don't think I mind noise at all. It's just the color speckle/splotching type crap that I don't like. I just like my colors to remain true and I can see color speckles in the 5D3 files alot more than the 6D.

Will this be the ultimate killer of the the 5D3... I dunno. I need to have more "Real use" testing. Mon-Fri I'm gone from the house from 5am to 7pm and it gets dark right now at 7:30 so my only available time for shooting is the weekend.

Sometimes I crop the image. I'll never crop an image past about 50-60% but if the ISO is 6400-12,800 which sometimes it is with my kids and stuff they do then I need as clean as a file as possible to promote a good final crop.

Yes, I think everyone will agree that the 5D3 is superior in almost every aspect. But in low light, which this thread pertains to, the 6D is in fact superior. Don't get me wrong, the 6D has major flaws and I point them out with much disdain in another thread and I would gladly give up the ISO advantage to afford a 5D3. But the 6D has a tangible advantage when it comes to ISO. Not to mention low light focus capability. So for low light, the 6D is superior. Not to most. But to pixel peepers that tend to run the gamut of specialized photography forums. Just trying to keep it on topic.

Whoops, don't know who to quote for this lol. Anyways, if I could afford the 5D3, I'd be all over it. Unfortunately, I'm poor and I have to tell myself that the 6D is superior in some aspect or another. :P

UserM4 wrote in post #16785066
Yes, I think everyone will agree that the 5D3 is superior in almost every aspect. But in low light, which this thread pertains to, the 6D is in fact superior. Don't get me wrong, the 6D has major flaws and I point them out with much disdain in another thread and I would gladly give up the ISO advantage to afford a 5D3. But the 6D has a tangible advantage when it comes to ISO. Not to mention low light focus capability. So for low light, the 6D is superior. Not to most. But to pixel peepers that tend to run the gamut of specialized photography forums. Just trying to keep it on topic.

Seriously the joystick is what will keep my hands on the 5D3. My thumb just cannot stretch that far while my eye is on the viewfinder to change focus points.

Talley wrote in post #16785053
I only use Lightroom so I cannot comment on DPP. Ya I might of forgotten to make sure every parameter was exact but for my understanding Lightroom takes the raw and only uses the raw data and does not apply any thing like DLO and such.

The center image of the bag I notice the "Speckles" more on the 5D3. It's just more speckled than the 6D. I notice it. I cannot comment on how many stops it is but I notice it. I can notice it in the web image 1024 on the back wall under the "Love" sign.

Tonight I will print and that will be my deciding factor. Like I said I will print 13x19 both and then do a 50% crop and again print both at 13x19.

My workflow is import into LR. My sharpening is basically setup for 38/.8/30/25 and on FF I haven't had the need for any noise reduction at all. Maybe on the 12,800+ I'll apply the luminance slider to about a 10 but thats it. Nothing major at all. I enjoy the noise of the FF.

Really I don't think I mind noise at all. It's just the color speckle/splotching type crap that I don't like. I just like my colors to remain true and I can see color speckles in the 5D3 files alot more than the 6D.

Will this be the ultimate killer of the the 5D3... I dunno. I need to have more "Real use" testing. Mon-Fri I'm gone from the house from 5am to 7pm and it gets dark right now at 7:30 so my only available time for shooting is the weekend.

I am not sure either, but I just went back to the raw and completely equalized them using Canon's product, then reposted the crops. Zero noise reduction, both sliders set to zero for both files.

Talley wrote in post #16785074


Seriously the joystick is what will keep my hands on the 5D3. My thumb just cannot stretch that far while my eye is on the viewfinder to change focus points.

Everytime I have to reach down to the D-Pad or look at the screen to adjust FEC, I want to throw the thing off a cliff! I can't wait until the 5D4 comes out so that I can justify throwing the 6D off that cliff!

UserM4 wrote in post #16785066
Yes, I think everyone will agree that the 5D3 is superior in almost every aspect. But in low light, which this thread pertains to, the 6D is in fact superior. Don't get me wrong, the 6D has major flaws and I point them out with much disdain in another thread and I would gladly give up the ISO advantage to afford a 5D3. But the 6D has a tangible advantage when it comes to ISO. Not to mention low light focus capability. So for low light, the 6D is superior. Not to most. But to pixel peepers that tend to run the gamut of specialized photography forums. Just trying to keep it on topic.

Whoops, don't know who to quote for this lol. Anyways, if I could afford the 5D3, I'd be all over it. Unfortunately, I'm poor and I have to tell myself that the 6D is superior in some aspect or another. :P

I have yet to find any normal situation where the 5D3 won't focus in low light. For what the 6D is capable of would almost be too dark to really be shooting anything, at least you won't have any real color to speak of. I know the 6D focuses better in lower light, but after reproducing the light levels they talk about for the 6D, I would never shoot in those conditions. Others might though, I understand that, like those that travel with firefighters, some concerts might get a bit lower light than this maybe, but this was pretty dark.

This is about as low as I go, this is how the scene actually looked, there was barely any light on the troop here, and the 5D3 had no issues locking on. I was very critical of the 1D4 low light AF, and then the 7D and 5D2, but so far, I haven't found anything that I shoot where the 5D3 cannot lock focus, especially in one shot, but I primarily shoot AI Servo.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16785078
I am not sure either, but I just went back to the raw and completely equalized them using Canon's product, then reposted the crops. Zero noise reduction, both sliders set to zero for both files.

AHhhh.... much much closer results. TeamSpeed my hat goes off to ya.

Somehow some way Lightroom uses some of canon's settings. Gotta be. The repost just closed in the gap to not that much difference.

That and the joystick owns my heart.

...this closes this argument. 5D3 Now onto the next argument... 300mm or sell and get 7D and use 70-200 (and have dual bodies that are equal in ergonomics)

TeamSpeed wrote in post #16785103
I have yet to find any normal situation where the 5D3 won't focus in low light. For what the 6D is capable of would almost be too dark to really be shooting anything, at least you won't have any real color to speak of. I know the 6D focuses better in lower light, but after reproducing the light levels they talk about for the 6D, I would never shoot in those conditions. Others might though, I understand that, like those that travel with firefighters, some concerts might get a bit lower light than this maybe, but this was pretty dark.

This is about as low as I go, this is how the scene actually looked, there was barely any light on the troop here, and the 5D3 had no issues locking on. I was very critical of the 1D4 low light AF, and then the 7D and 5D2, but so far, I haven't found anything that I shoot where the 5D3 cannot lock focus, especially in one shot, but I primarily shoot AI Servo.

You HAD to go there with the AI Servo didn't you? Right in the feels!