The Newbie and the Pro

Newbie goes through learning stages, learns photography, becomes a Pro, once a Pro no need for the brain to store the learning stages so it deletes it. Pro try's to help newbie only to sound like a rocket science to newbie.

My take is a bit different. In any field many of the most accomplished professionals have come to understand "why's as well as the simple "hows." I've found it rewarding to listen and learn these even though it can be a bit of struggle.

If you don't continue to learn and grow as a pro you wont stay in business long. And remember most pros went through a HUGE learning cycle when most moved from film to digital.

"Pro" can have different meanings and "permutations". Don't generalize, especially with negative connotations!

DigitalDon wrote in post #16816222
Newbie goes through learning stages, learns photography, becomes a Pro, once a Pro no need for the brain to store the learning stages so it deletes it. Pro try's to help newbie only to sound like a rocket science to newbie.

I noticed some of that in the Critique forum. For starters, people in a position to give advice forget that people receiving advice may not know all the terms and abbreviations.

tonylong wrote in post #16816988
"Pro" can have different meanings and "permutations". Don't generalize, especially with negative connotations!

I didn't mean to be negative at all, Just seems there needs to be a first grade level for newbies like me when it come to photography.
I truly appreciate the help I have gotten here from the pros, would have never figured out on my own without the internet and the pros.

DigitalDon wrote in post #16817183
I didn't mean to be negative at all, Just seems there needs to be a first grade level for newbies like me when it come to photography.
I truly appreciate the help I have gotten here from the pros, would have never figured out on my own without the internet and the pros.

Well, I'm glad you have been having a good time here! We (the POTN community) do enjoy our forum!

As to "levels" of your learning experience, well, sure, although 1) Many of the accomplished and experienced photographers here may not in fact be "pros" (once who are actually making a living doing photography)...

As far as getting input at your level of the learning curve, well, as you've seen in a public forum that has thousands of active members, you'll get all kinds of input, some of which may not be particularly helpful, some which could be real "game changers" for you.

Of course, here we have "Stickies" at the top of our various forum sections, many of which are written with "newbies" in mind. In fact, I'd suggest people spending time in those threads, and also with books and online courses as well as other tutorials, things which are aimed often with teaching you things from the "ground up"!

Even though we have a good number of people here who are good at communicating with people on a basic level, it can be hard to wade through all the chit-chat!

tonylong wrote in post #16817418
Well, I'm glad you have been having a good time here! We (the POTN community) do enjoy our forum!

As to "levels" of your learning experience, well, sure, although 1) Many of the accomplished and experienced photographers here may not in fact be "pros" (once who are actually making a living doing photography)...

As far as getting input at your level of the learning curve, well, as you've seen in a public forum that has thousands of active members, you'll get all kinds of input, some of which may not be particularly helpful, some which could be real "game changers" for you.

Of course, here we have "Stickies" at the top of our various forum sections, many of which are written with "newbies" in mind. In fact, I'd suggest people spending time in those threads, and also with books and online courses as well as other tutorials, things which are aimed often with teaching you things from the "ground up"!

Even though we have a good number of people here who are good at communicating with people on a basic level, it can be hard to wade through all the chit-chat!

Thanks Tony
What I have learned so far is, I bought a DSLR and wanted to jump right in and start taking pictures, the first thing I am thinking NOW, is, That I needed to leave my camera in fully automatic mode, take pictures then run them through a processing software (LR4 was my choice) until I had the most basics of the basics of LR etched into my brain. Then LR wouldn't be in my mind while trying to learn more about photography.

The devil's triangle ISO, SS and Aperture drew me into it so deep that it took me for ever to just except the fact that f/1.8 is a large opening and f/22 is a small opening, still don't fully understand how do I turn myself into a light meter to make the 3 work together, So, I went and bought a light meter. But, I do find bits and pieces in places that I didn't even need to be at the time, like in the flash threads how to adjust ambient to flash, there it was SS and Aperture in simple terms, I know it has probably been explained in the simplest of terms but I missed it because someone mentioned focal lengths of the lens and it's effects, so here I am now lost in lens focal lenghts and charts until my eyes and head hurts and I have to give it up for the night and go to bed.

Hey, it doesn't have to be overwhelming, walk before you run, except that with digital cameras walking can in fact seem like running!

I mentioned reading the "Stickies"...as to photography and the "Triangle", check out this post, it's excellent for newcomers:

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=414088

And, have you read "Understanding Exposure (Third Edition)" by Bryan Peterson? That's considered, well, almost a "must"!!

As to post-processing, have you spent time in our "Raw, Post-Processing and Printing" sub-forum?

Yeah, with digital photography the "Digital Darkroom" does come into play, but I don't want to encourage you into ignoring the actual photography aspect...get out and take photos and then look at them on your computer. You will find yourself asking "how do I do this, and how do I do that?"...that is when you do what you can to figure it out, ask users here for advice, then get out and take more photos!

OhLook wrote in post #16817006
I noticed some of that in the Critique forum. For starters, people in a position to give advice forget that people receiving advice may not know all the terms and abbreviations.

That's because the one giving the advice doesn't want to be helpful. The one giving advice wants the newbie to fall on his knees and worship him because he is so wise.

tonylong wrote in post #16817743
Hey, it doesn't have to be overwhelming, walk before you run, except that with digital cameras walking can in fact seem like running!

I mentioned reading the "Stickies"...as to photography and the "Triangle", check out this post, it's excellent for newcomers:

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=414088

And, have you read "Understanding Exposure (Third Edition)" by Bryan Peterson? That's considered, well, almost a "must"!!

As to post-processing, have you spent time in our "Raw, Post-Processing and Printing" sub-forum?

Yeah, with digital photography the "Digital Darkroom" does come into play, but I don't want to encourage you into ignoring the actual photography aspect...get out and take photos and then look at them on your computer. You will find yourself asking "how do I do this, and how do I do that?"...that is when you do what you can to figure it out, ask users here for advice, then get out and take more photos!

Thanks Tony
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=414088 Yes I saw this when I was brand new to the forum and I hate to admit that it was rocket science to me, but now I can see that it was not. Maybe I shouldn't have tried to absorb the whole page at one time, lot of information. I should have focused on Aperture until it was etched in, then moved to SS and absorbed it before saying to myself, Oh, dof, I want to try that then ending up in dof land. Yes I'm really that slow of a learner, from now on if something stumps me and there is two or three things to it, then I am going to take number one and go over and over it until it's etched in then do the same with number two and three.

I couldn't care less if my question here was answered by Pro, Newbie or Else.

kf095 wrote in post #16818374
I couldn't care less if my question here was answered by Pro, Newbie or Else.

I may have painted the word Pro with a wide brush, I just meant Pro to be the people here that has great knowlege of photography.

DigitalDon wrote in post #16817688
Thanks Tony
What I have learned so far is, I bought a DSLR and wanted to jump right in and start taking pictures, the first thing I am thinking NOW, is, That I needed to leave my camera in fully automatic mode, take pictures then run them through a processing software (LR4 was my choice) until I had the most basics of the basics of LR etched into my brain. Then LR wouldn't be in my mind while trying to learn more about photography.

The devil's triangle ISO, SS and Aperture drew me into it so deep that it took me for ever to just except the fact that f/1.8 is a large opening and f/22 is a small opening, still don't fully understand how do I turn myself into a light meter to make the 3 work together, So, I went and bought a light meter. But, I do find bits and pieces in places that I didn't even need to be at the time, like in the flash threads how to adjust ambient to flash, there it was SS and Aperture in simple terms, I know it has probably been explained in the simplest of terms but I missed it because someone mentioned focal lengths of the lens and it's effects, so here I am now lost in lens focal lenghts and charts until my eyes and head hurts and I have to give it up for the night and go to bed.

IMHO, you should get comfortable with the body first, learn more about the modes that live outside the green box, and see what works best for you camera wise. A good image should be made in-camera, then processed for anything you wish to tweak later.
Av and Tv are great for helping out. Lots of people shoot in Manual, I am one of them, but thats mostly because I've not taken the time to see how Av or Tv would help me out.
Its like you said about the Devils triangle (interesting way to phrase it)...thats how you learned what the aperture numbers meant regarding the amount of light that comes in. The t3i is an amazing body which will take you far, and it will help you along the way. The great thing about digital is that you aren't wasting film while you learn. It's instant results, and you can recompose, change the settings, shoot again until you get your shot, then remember how you got there.
Most of what I learned about dslr's I actually gleaned from POTN. There is so much experience and information being passed around. And of course, I own Bryan Petersons Understanding Exposure. As Tony said, there are stickies, there are step by step guides, there are forums for every possible subject. Step away from the computer and get out and shoot!

jay125 wrote in post #16818610
IMHO, you should get comfortable with the body first, learn more about the modes that live outside the green box, and see what works best for you camera wise. A good image should be made in-camera, then processed for anything you wish to tweak later.
Av and Tv are great for helping out. Lots of people shoot in Manual, I am one of them, but thats mostly because I've not taken the time to see how Av or Tv would help me out.
Its like you said about the Devils triangle (interesting way to phrase it)...thats how you learned what the aperture numbers meant regarding the amount of light that comes in. The t3i is an amazing body which will take you far, and it will help you along the way. The great thing about digital is that you aren't wasting film while you learn. It's instant results, and you can recompose, change the settings, shoot again until you get your shot, then remember how you got there.
Most of what I learned about dslr's I actually gleaned from POTN. There is so much experience and information being passed around. And of course, I own Bryan Petersons Understanding Exposure. As Tony said, there are stickies, there are step by step guides, there are forums for every possible subject. Step away from the computer and get out and shoot!

Thanks Jay

Yes, I about have all the functions of the camera figured out and can get to most all of the settings with out much thought, That and getting the basics of LR4 figured out and no longer having to focus on them, things are getting a lot better.