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Thread started 12 Apr 2014 (Saturday) 15:34
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Renowned Photographer Jeff Mitchum's Masterpiece "Third Day" Sells For $1.8 Million

 
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edge100
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Apr 17, 2014 08:59 |  #46

pwm2 wrote in post #16840608 (external link)
I don't agree.

People shouldn't have to "learn" what they should like. It's ignorance to think it's ignorance when people don't like a famous artist.

There would be no art, and no expensive paintings/photos/... if everyone had the same view on what was good and bad. There would just be a very boring muddle of identical crap.

Why not? You learn just about everything else. Art can have an immediate "I like that" appeal, but it becomes FAR more valuable to you if you allow it to sink in, and to learn about its underlying intent and meaning.


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edge100
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Apr 17, 2014 09:00 |  #47

Shadowblade wrote in post #16840613 (external link)
Exactly.

I don't care what the idea is behind a piece of art if it looks like what an elephant created with a paintbrush using its trunk.

Ok. Your loss.


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Shadowblade
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Apr 17, 2014 09:02 |  #48

edge100 wrote in post #16840596 (external link)
As though exposure, focus, or lighting were the non-plus-ultra of good art.

Look beyond the end of your nose.

Nope.

But they're the fundamentals. If the technicals aren't right, then it's a poor image, regardless of what else it contains. And if it's technically poor and not documenting an event of significance (Tank Man in Tienanmen Square was significant; some guy jumping over a puddle is not significant), you may as well throw it out.




  
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pwm2
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Apr 17, 2014 09:03 |  #49

edge100 wrote in post #16840614 (external link)
Why not? You learn just about everything else. Art can have an immediate "I like that" appeal, but it becomes FAR more valuable to you if you allow it to sink in, and to learn about its underlying intent and meaning.

That's a second step only meaningful if I already like something. If I don't like it, I have zero interest in knowing whatever the artist thought or felt or if he had bladder issues at that time.

If the art doesn't sell to me, then the rest is irrelevant.


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Apr 17, 2014 09:04 |  #50

Shadowblade wrote in post #16840609 (external link)
I didn't know that. It's also not relevant.

I (or anyone else) could have the same philosophy and technique as Monet. That doesn't mean that what I paint is any good.

Bressons work and Adams work are both very relevant and even though the subject matter is very different, they share the same visual concerns.


And remember the established art world at the time (late 1800s) banned to work of the impressionists.




  
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edge100
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Apr 17, 2014 09:05 |  #51

Shadowblade wrote in post #16840625 (external link)
Nope.

But they're the fundamentals. If the technicals aren't right, then it's a poor image, regardless of what else it contains. And if it's technically poor and not documenting an event of significance (Tank Man in Tienanmen Square was significant; some guy jumping over a puddle is not significant), you may as well throw it out.

Unbelievable. I almost think you're taking the piss here, so back-assward is this point of view.

By this measure, art is only as good as the tools used to make it. The sharper the photograph, the better the art. NOTHING could be further from the truth.


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edge100
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Apr 17, 2014 09:07 |  #52

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16840631 (external link)
Bressons work and Adams work are both very relevant and even though the subject matter is very different, they share the same visual concerns.


And remember the established art world at the time (late 1800s) banned to work of the impressionists.

Good example.

Shadowblade, what is your opinion of impressionism?

Monet? Renoir? What about post-impressionists like Seurat?


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airfrogusmc
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Apr 17, 2014 09:09 |  #53

Heres a few things outside the cave that can help you on the journey. What you like or dislike is quite alright and very subjective and will change as you grow visually.

http://char.txa.cornel​l.edu/language/introla​n.htm (external link)

Words at the bottom of the first page that I find so important.
The important point to remember is that we should all feel free to like or dislike what we will, on grounds of personal taste. HOWEVER, please note that there is a distinction between personal taste or preference and objective judgements of success or failure in a work of design or art. It is possible to recognize that a work is successful and significant, even though it does not suit our personal taste. It should be clear that unless one can lay claim to a high level of expertise it is rather immoderate to condemn a work as "bad" just because one doesn't like it. It is important for an artist to understand this distinction, and even more so for a designer, who will surely be called upon to do creative work in a framework of someone else's tastes and ideas.

It is possible to learn how these objective judgements are made. A lot of it has to do with this business of visual language, and learning more of that language is what this course is about. There are objective criteria by which we can determine whether or not a work is successful ("good").




  
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Shadowblade
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Apr 17, 2014 09:10 |  #54

edge100 wrote in post #16840614 (external link)
Why not? You learn just about everything else. Art can have an immediate "I like that" appeal, but it becomes FAR more valuable to you if you allow it to sink in, and to learn about its underlying intent and meaning.

Why does the intent and meaning matter?

The purpose of painting or photographing something is to either create a record of a place, person or significant event, or to create an image of beauty which can stand on its own merit. The former is journalism or archival work, not art. Most of the 'art' which has been brought up on this thread can't stand on its own merit - take away the name of the creator or the reasons and circumstances in which they was created and most of them become the same boring, poorly-composed snapshots as the ones uploaded onto Instagram by the million each day.




  
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edge100
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Apr 17, 2014 09:13 |  #55

Shadowblade wrote in post #16840644 (external link)
Why does the intent and meaning matter?

The purpose of painting or photographing something is to either create a record of a place, person or significant event, or to create an image of beauty which can stand on its own merit. The former is journalism or archival work, not art. Most of the 'art' which has been brought up on this thread can't stand on its own merit - take away the name of the creator or the reasons and circumstances in which they was created and most of them become the same boring, poorly-composed snapshots as the ones uploaded onto Instagram by the million each day.

Show me ONE Instagram that comes close to 'Behind the Gare St-Lazare'. Seriously; you keep saying that these Cartier-Bresson photographs are no better than that produced everyday on Flickr/Instagram. So show me one.

And who decided that those are the sole 'purposes' of painting or photography?

The intent and meaning matter because art can be social/political/moral​/etc commentary, as well as vehicles for pleasing aesthetics. Both are equally valid.


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Shadowblade
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Apr 17, 2014 09:13 |  #56

edge100 wrote in post #16840632 (external link)
Unbelievable. I almost think you're taking the piss here, so back-assward is this point of view.

By this measure, art is only as good as the tools used to make it. The sharper the photograph, the better the art. NOTHING could be further from the truth.

Nope. Technical quality is only the baseline. If it's poorly-composed or poorly lit (in terms of quality, not quantity of lighting), then it's also a poor photo.




  
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Shadowblade
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Apr 17, 2014 09:15 |  #57

edge100 wrote in post #16840638 (external link)
Good example.

Shadowblade, what is your opinion of impressionism?

Monet? Renoir? What about post-impressionists like Seurat?

I like some individual paintings. Most of the others look like mush, or nothing at all.




  
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Shadowblade
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Apr 17, 2014 09:16 |  #58

edge100 wrote in post #16840656 (external link)
Show me ONE Instagram that comes close to 'Behind the Gare St-Lazare'. Seriously; you keep saying that these Cartier-Bresson photographs are no better than that produced everyday on Flickr/Instagram. So show me one.

And who decided that those are the sole 'purposes' of painting or photography?

The intent and meaning matter because art can be social/political/moral​/etc commentary, as well as vehicles for pleasing aesthetics. Both are equally valid.

The commentary only matters if the work itself is aesthetically pleasing.

If I don't like the picture, I don't care what message (if any) the artist was trying to convey.




  
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Shadowblade
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Apr 17, 2014 09:17 |  #59

pwm2 wrote in post #16840629 (external link)
That's a second step only meaningful if I already like something. If I don't like it, I have zero interest in knowing whatever the artist thought or felt or if he had bladder issues at that time.

If the art doesn't sell to me, then the rest is irrelevant.

Couldn't have put it better.




  
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airfrogusmc
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Apr 17, 2014 09:18 |  #60

I think most really great work goes beyond the obvious, The easiest thing to do as an artist is to make a record. The hardest thing to do is move it beyond the obvious. Beyond the noun (or record only) and make it more than the noun or move it beyond the obvious as Weston called it.
"I see no reason for recording the obvious." - Edward Weston

Meyerowitz also talks a bit about this in this video. Kind of close to the end.
http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=Xumo7_JUeMo (external link)




  
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