Crop Sensor Portrait

I originally began looking into the 70-200 range for a better portrait lens, since everyone seems to either point at the 70-200 or the 85mm as the preferred portrait. But, once I consider AF, the price seems to jump up to 1K if I want the zoom abilities of a 70-200 at atleast 2.8. I don't want another prime, but I don't see myself taking many distance shots. Given the crop sensor I was looking into the sigma 50-150 but that price is still a bit steep for me. Would I be better off looking at like the sigma 17-70, to cover the low end on the 70-200 for a crop, or would it be better to try to go for a longer zoom. If so, what other recommendations would you make? any help would be awesome.

Yes, many, many choices. I suggest you nail down the mm you want to use for portraits first. Very personal decision. Perspective and working distance. No one here can decide that for you. Next, budget. Give us those 2 figures and we can perhaps be helpful. Does it have to be AF?

Honestly given the crop and my existing 35, I would want to be in the 40/50-120 range. Under 750 if possible. Id like a bit of zoom but I don't have anything to cover the 85mm. Haven't actually shot at 85, but I am noticing the facial feature distortion caused by shooting at 35 currently.

A prime will give you an advantage over the zooms of an equal focal length in background separation. To reduce the probability of perspective distortion you probably dont want to go wider than 50mm if you frame for half body or less. If you want a real bargain its hard to beat the 85 1.8 for crop. The 70-200 has some advantages, but not all 70-200's are created equal. Which one were you thinking?

First of all, the labels hung on certain lens FL apply ONLY ON FF CAMERA!

• 85mm is a 'portrait lens' only on FF...on APS-C it is a 'medium telephoto lens'
  
• 100mm is a 'portrait lens' only on FF...on APS-C it is a 'medium telephoto lens'
  
• Just as 135mm is 'loo long' for a studio portrait shooter with FF, 85mm will also be 'too long' for a studio portrait shooter on ASP-C
  

• FF 50mm for 'full length standing portrait' = APS-C with 30mm
  
• FF 85mm for 'waist up portrait ' = APS-C with 50-55mm
  
• FF 100mm for 'head & shoulders' = APS-C with 60-65
  
• FF 150mm for 'tight headshot' = APS-C 90-95mm
  

Wilt wrote in post #16833176
First of all, the labels hung on certain lens FL apply ONLY ON FF CAMERA!

• 85mm is a 'portrait lens' only on FF...on APS-C it is a 'medium telephoto lens'
  
• Just as 135mm is 'loo long' for a studio portrait shooter with FF, 85mm will also be 'too long' for a studio portrait shooter on ASP-C

If you want 'equivalent FL' for shooting portraiture on APS-C, you need to divide the FF camera FL by 1.6x to figure out the range you want to use 'for studio portraits' (i.e., shooting from about 8-10' from your subject)

• FF 50mm for 'full length standing portrait' = APS-C with 30mm
  
• FF 85mm for 'waist up portrait ' = APS-C with 50-55mm
  
• FF 100mm for 'head & shoulders' = APS-C with 60-65
  
• FF 150mm for 'tight headshot' = APS-C 90-95mm

Lots of amateurs are shy and prefer longer shooting distances and even unawareness of the camera by the subject, these are actually 'candids', not 'portraits'

I agree with your math, but the bold part is a terribly broad overstatement.

gonzogolf wrote in post #16833185
I agree with your math, but the bold part is a terribly broad overstatement.

Yes, but describing the continuum found in photography is equally difficult as describing the positions of a pendulum on a grandfather clock...you generalize to the two extremes and conveniently ignore (or oversimplify) all the in-between states!

I hardly think any of the papparazzi call themselves 'portraitists' while shooting Miley Cyrus on stage and getting in and out of her car!

But to imply anyone who uses a long lens for a distance as only taking snapshots is insulting to some damn fine photographers.

gonzogolf wrote in post #16833204
But to imply anyone who uses a long lens for a distance as only taking snapshots is insulting to some damn fine photographers.

I originally said, " unawareness of the camera by the subject, these are actually 'candids', not 'portraits'". Objective statement, not subjective opinion about the lack of quality of shooting! You put the (unintended) subjectivity into my statement.
That does not infer snapshooting by acknowledged fine portraitists (Avedon) or candid shooters (Eisenstadt, Cartier-Bresson). It puts them into acknowledged genre of photography.

Wilt wrote in post #16833221
I originally said, " unawareness of the camera by the subject, these are actually 'candids', not 'portraits'". Objective statement, not subjective opinion about the lack of quality of shooting!
That does not infer snapshooting by acknowledged fine portraitists (Avedon) or candid shooters (Eisenstadt, Cartier-Bresson). It puts them into acknowledged genre of photography.

But you imply that camera awareness is somehow dependent on focal length, or why bring it up?

"One of the common misconceptions about portrait photography is that it is but a snapshot or a photograph of a person. This is not true. In portrait photography or portraiture, a composed or “rehearsed” image of a person in a still position is captured. This basically means that the portrait photographer would prep the subject and the subject would have a specific position and angle. Of course, the “rehearsal” and all the details surrounding it should be discussed between the subject and portrait photographer beforehand."

"A candid photograph is a photograph that is captured through motion mostly, without creating a posed appearance. This is achieved by avoiding prior preparation of the subject and by either surprising the subject or by not distracting the subject during the process of taking photos.[1] Thus, the candid character of a photo is regardless of the subject's knowledge or consent as to the fact that photos are being taken, and regardless of the subject's permission for subsequent usage such as distribution, but related to the apparent absence of posing. It is distinguished from making secret photography by the photographer usually remaining discernible to the public and not wearing cover."

Wilt wrote in post #16833235
"One of the common misconceptions about portrait photography is that it is but a snapshot or a photograph of a person. This is not true. In portrait photography or portraiture, a composed or “rehearsed” image of a person in a still position is captured. This basically means that the portrait photographer would prep the subject and the subject would have a specific position and angle. Of course, the “rehearsal” and all the details surrounding it should be discussed between the subject and portrait photographer beforehand."

"A candid photograph is a photograph that is captured through motion mostly, without creating a posed appearance. This is achieved by avoiding prior preparation of the subject and by either surprising the subject or by not distracting the subject during the process of taking photos.[1] Thus, the candid character of a photo is regardless of the subject's knowledge or consent as to the fact that photos are being taken, and regardless of the subject's permission for subsequent usage such as distribution, but related to the apparent absence of posing. It is distinguished from making secret photography by the photographer usually remaining discernible to the public and not wearing cover."

None of which has a damn thing to do with the focal length of the lens used to make a portrait.

gonzogolf wrote in post #16833223
But you imply that camera awareness is somehow dependent on focal length, or why bring it up?

Only because all too commonly folks state is their goal "I don't want the subject to be aware of me taking photos", so they use longer FL. Granted, I can shoot 'candids' with 30mm or 18mm as well as 100mm on APS-C (vs. shooting posed portraits with 30-65mm or headshots with 100mm on APS-C) But I sure as heck am not going to try posing with 200mm on APS-C (unless working with a professional model at the other end of a walkie talkie)

Wilt wrote in post #16833176
First of all, the labels hung on certain lens FL apply ONLY ON FF CAMERA!

• 85mm is a 'portrait lens' only on FF...on APS-C it is a 'medium telephoto lens'
  
• 100mm is a 'portrait lens' only on FF...on APS-C it is a 'medium telephoto lens'
  
• Just as 135mm is 'loo long' for a studio portrait shooter with FF, 85mm will also be 'too long' for a studio portrait shooter on ASP-C
  

If you want 'equivalent FL' for shooting portraiture on APS-C, you need to divide the FF camera FL by 1.6x to figure out the range you want to use 'for studio portraits' (i.e., shooting from about 8-10' from your subject)

• FF 50mm for 'full length standing portrait' = APS-C with 30mm
  
• FF 85mm for 'waist up portrait ' = APS-C with 50-55mm
  
• FF 100mm for 'head & shoulders' = APS-C with 60-65
  
• FF 150mm for 'tight headshot' = APS-C 90-95mm
  

Lots of amateurs are shy and prefer longer shooting distances and even unawareness of the camera by the subject, these are actually 'candids', not 'portraits'

So if you want 'portrait lens for APS-C' in the same context as with FF, you really want 30-90mm FL range! If you prefer to be farther away, simply multiply 10' by the multiplication factor that gets you to your comfort zone...but realize that facial perspective changes by doing so!

What a load of rubbish. Okay, so less than 50mm you can have distortion that is unpleasant.....IF you fill the frame with your subject. You could do environmental portraits with 35mm with no issues. Then you start talking about studio portraits...uhm where did the OP mention that? Not all portraits are studio.

Also, choosing longer shooting distances has NOTHING to do with being "shy" or "amateur". If you want spacial compression in a hallway or to compress distance with something in the background or get a really nice fall color but not have definition in the leaves/etc. to be distracting - those are all good reasons for a long focal length. I shoot 200mm portraits all the time. And that's on FF. So 85mm on crop is not an issue at all. It just depends on what you are wanting to do.

Also, a longer shooting distance does not automatically mean candid. That's ridiculous.

Wilt wrote in post #16833247
Only because all too commonly folks state is their goal "I don't want to subject to be aware of me taking photos", so they use longer FL. Granted, I can shoot 'candids' with 30mm or 18mm as well as 100mm on APS-C (vs. shooting posed portraits with 50-65mm on APS-C)

But the OP didnt as for a candid lens. He mentions the need for a portrait lens so there is an assumption until proven otherwise he will be taking portraits with said lens.