Gitzo GIGT3542LS or Really Right Stuff TVC-34L

sawsedge wrote in post #16860200
I imagine a TLR is pretty big and exotic looking to most. I feel the same way about white lenses in public, preferring to use them only at parks/wildlife areas. And gold/red/blue ballheads - I'll stick with black, thanks. I also tend to remove brand names from my bags, and scuff them up a bit deliberately...

Back to the tripods... as much as I would like to buy within my own country, RRS does not make a model of ideal height for me (5'8") when standing, and Gitzo does. I suppose I could mark the last set of legs on the RRS for that ideal height. Much of the time, I work down low doing closeups and the thing isn't extended.

I dont mind longer legs and actually prefer them. My legs are a bit too long, but really easy to get them to shorten. Small mental note to shorten topmost a tad when tightening.

peter_n wrote in post #16860087
Interesting, I'm just the opposite, I want my tripod not to be seen. I shoot a lot of street and the last thing I need is getting attention because I have a nice looking piece of gear. One of my favorite cameras is a Rolleiflex TLR and it's a real problem because it's just such a beautiful camera and it looks brand new.

It is not that I am looking to impress others with the RRS - I am just a long time fan of Carbon weaves. It is rare that I use a tripod in the presence of others (and then it is usually night shoots)

tvphotog wrote in post #16859045
And if you've ever ridden a well made Italian steel bike or worn an Italian wool suit, I wouldn't worry about a tripod made in Italy.

Unless it's a Gitzo. I've had two of them fail on me because of the fragile composite metal they use. For example (this is the second one that broke on me under normal use in conditions that were within specs):

Phrasikleia wrote in post #16861185
Unless it's a Gitzo. I've had two of them fail on me because of the fragile composite metal they use. For example (this is the second one that broke on me under normal use in conditions that were within specs):

I subsequently bought a RRS tripod and will never again buy anything from Gitzo. RRS is in a whole other league as far as build quality goes. They use machined aluminum instead of that magnesium composite material, and every part on them is beefier and better constructed. RRS tripods are also just much nicer to use, with features like the ratcheted leg stops putting them way ahead of Gitzo in innovation.

There's something strange about two of them failing on you the same way. But I saw another example on the web of the same thing. Maybe this model? Has anyone else had this experience?

tvphotog wrote in post #16861385
There's something strange about two of them failing on you the same way. But I saw another example on the web of the same thing. Maybe this model? Has anyone else had this experience?

The breaks were in different locations each time, and they were two different models. Here's a photo of the first one that broke on me:

Phrasikleia wrote in post #16861437
The breaks were in different locations each time, and they were two different models. Here's a photo of the first one that broke on me:

That time the plastic angle stopper just pushed right through the magnesium material. The one thing that both failures had in common was that I was working in cold weather. The first time it was slightly above freezing, and the second time it was well below freezing (but still within the operating specs that Gitzo states).

I'm sorry you had that problem, but I'm going to chalk it up to a fluke. There are hundreds of thousands of Gitzo tripod-years out there, and if a couple had an issue, it's a fluke. If more had the problem, the web would be loaded with similar stories. I found one other. Let's see what happens to RRS over 20 years of use.

tvphotog wrote in post #16861484
I'm sorry you had that problem, but I'm going to chalk it up to a fluke. There are hundreds of thousands of Gitzo tripod-years out there, and if a couple had an issue, it's a fluke. If more had the problem, the web would be loaded with similar stories. I found one other. Let's see what happens to RRS over 20 years of use.

Fair enough. For the purposes of this thread, I think it is important to note the very different build qualities of the two brands, however. The better materials and better construction of RRS are obvious from even a cursory comparison with Gitzo legs when you have the two brands side-by-side. It's like comparing a top-drawer L-lens with a good EF-S lens: there is a big difference. That extra quality comes at a premium, but for me it has been worth it. I've been using my RRS tripod for 18 months now without a single issue, and I don't baby it at all, whereas I was quite cautious with the Gitzos. The feel of the RRS tripod just inspires confidence and makes me feel as though it doesn't require kid gloves.

If I had Phrasikleia's experience I'd probably have the same reaction as hers; never buy another. I've seen more fractures like these over the years but never with a Gitzo systematic, it's always the 1 or 2-series tripods with center columns that seem to be the issue. The Mountaineers for example. One thing Gitzo owners need to do is read the fine print on the warranty as a temperature range for use is specified there.

It's also worth noting that a solid piece of aluminum (RRS) is not going to split apart like that, no matter what kind of temperatures you're working in.

Bryan

peter_n wrote in post #16861655
If I had Phrasikleia's experience I'd probably have the same reaction as hers; never buy another. I've seen more fractures like these over the years but never with a Gitzo systematic, it's always the 1 or 2-series tripods with center columns that seem to be the issue. The Mountaineers for example. One thing Gitzo owners need to do is read the fine print on the warranty as a temperature range for use is specified there.

I agree, that's what I thought, that particular model. And I'm concerned about the engineering of the RRS for one, the same reason that you wrote about in another thread, the leg joint screws. I have a cheaper Feisol tripod that has this problem, and blue Loctite works...until it doesn't and has to be applied again. This is a problem of cheaper tripods IMO, not one of one over $1000. I've used my series 3 Systemic for as long as that Feisol, and the screws are as tight as when it was new. This is a simple issue, and makes me wonder what else is wrong the RRS engineering.

This is a Mercedes vs. Cadillac issue, you research, you pays yer money and you takes yer choice. There are clearly people very happy with both. Time will tell about the RRS.

bps wrote in post #16861720
It's also worth noting that a solid piece of aluminum (RRS) is not going to split apart like that, no matter what kind of temperatures you're working in.

Bryan

Not true. Aluminum can crack along grain boundaries, depending on stress and other exposures. Aluminum doesn't flex very much and is stiffer and more brittle than other metals, resulting in the stiff ride of aluminum frame bikes compared to steel. Bike shops used to check Al tubes for cracking on each maintenance to avoid catastrophic failure from even a hairline crack or a small ding. Thin walled tubes are not the same as a block of metal, but the phenomenon of stress cracking still applies.

Give the RRS sticks a few years to be exposed to multiple stresses, and we'll see.

tvphotog wrote in post #16861883
I agree, that's what I thought, that particular model. And I'm concerned about the engineering of the RRS for one, the same reason that you wrote about in another thread, the leg joint screws. I have a cheaper Feisol tripod that has this problem, and blue Loctite works...until it doesn't and has to be applied again. This is a problem of cheaper tripods IMO, not one of one over $1000. I've used my series 3 Systemic for as long as that Feisol, and the screws are as tight as when it was new. This is a simple issue, and makes me wonder what else is wrong the RRS engineering.

Again, it's not one particular model, at least not in my case. Those were two different models. Both have magnesium alloy spiders, however, and that stuff is just nowhere near as durable as machined aluminum. The amount of stress you would have to put on a solid piece of machined aluminum in order to get it to crack would far exceed what any photographer would place on a tripod.

I don't know about this leg joint screw problem you mention. What is that all about? I've had no problems with anything on my RRS tripod whatsoever, and I ride it pretty hard. I've had it completely encased in ice, submerged in water, and buried in snow, and it hasn't skipped a beat. Conversely, I was very cautious with my Gitzos, and they fell apart before I'd had either one a full year.

tvphotog wrote in post #16861883
This is a Mercedes vs. Cadillac issue, you research, you pays yer money and you takes yer choice. There are clearly people very happy with both. Time will tell about the RRS.

Not sure about the Mercedes vs. Cadillac thing, but there are definitely people happy with both. I was fine with my Gitzo tripods until each one bit the dust.

tvphotog wrote in post #16861883
Not true. Aluminum can crack along grain boundaries, depending on stress and other exposures. Aluminum doesn't flex very much and is stiffer and more brittle than other metals, resulting in the stiff ride of aluminum frame bikes compared to steel. Bike shops used to check Al tubes for cracking on each maintenance to avoid catastrophic failure from even a hairline crack or a small ding. Thin walled tubes are not the same as a block of metal, but the phenomenon of stress cracking still applies.

Give the RRS sticks a few years to be exposed to multiple stresses, and we'll see.

there are many grades of aluminum, I'm curious what RRS uses, and how that compares to mag cast. When I think of cast, I think cheap... not sure it's true or not, but my gut feeling. Would love to see these RRS tripods in person.

tvphotog wrote in post #16861883
I agree, that's what I thought, that particular model. And I'm concerned about the engineering of the RRS for one, the same reason that you wrote about in another thread, the leg joint screws. I have a cheaper Feisol tripod that has this problem, and blue Loctite works...until it doesn't and has to be applied again. This is a problem of cheaper tripods IMO, not one of one over $1000. I've used my series 3 Systemic for as long as that Feisol, and the screws are as tight as when it was new. This is a simple issue, and makes me wonder what else is wrong the RRS engineering.

This is a Mercedes vs. Cadillac issue, you research, you pays yer money and you takes yer choice. There are clearly people very happy with both. Time will tell about the RRS.

Not true. Aluminum can crack along grain boundaries, depending on stress and other exposures. Aluminum doesn't flex very much and is stiffer and more brittle than other metals, resulting in the stiff ride of aluminum frame bikes compared to steel. Bike shops used to check Al tubes for cracking on each maintenance to avoid catastrophic failure from even a hairline crack or a small ding. Thin walled tubes are not the same as a block of metal, but the phenomenon of stress cracking still applies.

Give the RRS sticks a few years to be exposed to multiple stresses, and we'll see.

You would think airplanes would be dropping out of the sky by now, with all the wing stress and temperature variations they go through.

If RRS uses the same grade aluminum that gun manufacturers do, I doubt you'll ever see a failure like the one pictured above on the Gitzo.

Phrasikleia wrote in post #16861918
I don't know about this leg joint screw problem you mention. What is that all about?

This is the issue with the screws.

We all use tripods to increase stability, and having to check for leg wobble all the time is a pain in the a$$. Also, on my Feisol travel sticks that had the problem, with all the leg opening and closing, the Loctite fails after a time and constantly has to be reapplied. This is an engineering mistake and it should not be the buyer's job to constantly have to deal with it, not for $1000. It's a major risk to stability, and one of the main reasons I decided against RRS. And what else did they do wrong? Time will tell.

I certainly understand why you tossed the Gitzos and went to RRS. I would have done the same. I'm glad so far that things are working out. But after my evaluation of both products, I'm one of the ones happy with the tried and true Gitzo.

Charlie wrote in post #16861995
there are many grades of aluminum, I'm curious what RRS uses, and how that compares to mag cast. When I think of cast, I think cheap... not sure it's true or not, but my gut feeling. Would love to see these RRS tripods in person.

RRS uses solid blocks of aircraft grade 6061-T6 aluminum for their metal hardware. It's CNC milled, not machined. Milling often means that there's a fair amount of waste.

Gitzo uses magnesium alloy, and I'm fairly sure that it's poured into the die and not forged, but they could be using a squeeze method where they pour into the bottom of the die then push more into the die to close it up.

Magnesium alloy proponents think it's way more rigid than milled aluminum but that's not true. It's based on dodgy data, the two metals have about the same rigidity. I think the magnesium is a bit lighter than the aluminum but that's about it. I wouldn't choose a tripod based on its metal hardware that's for sure.

I reiterate that the breakages have been in 1 and 2-series type tripods and not systematics. I think we need to be careful not to generalize the property of one product design to another; just because one type of design has either design or structural flaws doesn't necessary mean all products from the same company will potentially have those flaws. We're talking chalk & cheese here, or as you say here in America apples & oranges. As Jay points out there have been many thousands of Gitzo systematics out in the wild for years and their reputation is very solid.