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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 13 May 2014 (Tuesday) 16:30
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Well it happened again!

 
OhLook
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May 17, 2014 12:11 |  #31

flashpoint99 wrote in post #16910909 (external link)
Thanks. I too am surprised that I am somehow the bad guy and the security guard was just doing his job.

I think what you're seeing here is at least partly due to a common tendency to make an inference from "X complained about someone's treatment of him" to "X is lacking in self-awareness, and he needs to be shown how he contributed to the bad situation." Sometimes such responses are appropriate and sometimes they aren't.

People like to believe in justice. (external link) They prefer stories in which every character got a fair outcome and everything comes out even. So, for example, they'll look for ways you might have provoked the guard (did you call attention to yourself by dressing oddly?) or responded poorly (e.g., speaking in a defensive tone) when he approached you.

Another motif in some posts is criticism because the incident is still enough of an emotional issue to move you to post about it even though your dispute with the guard was resolved at the scene. Some observers believe in forgetting insults and "moving on." Individuals differ in reactions to being unjustly accused.


PRONOUN ADVISORY: OhLook is a she. | A FEW CORRECT SPELLINGS: lens, aperture, amateur, hobbyist, per se, raccoon, whoa, more so (2 wds.), shoo-in | IMAGE EDITING OK

  
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banquetbear
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May 17, 2014 19:46 |  #32

flashpoint99 wrote in post #16910896 (external link)
He was the only one out of maybe half a dozen security personal that did this at the venue. If the general thought of the security personnel was that photography was not allowed why then didn't the other 5 officers do the same thing. Why then did he leave me after I made it clear he was wrong yet continue to harass others ? You don't need to answer ,everyone who was actually there and experienced this first hand has a pretty good idea.

...why are you asking me these questions and not the venue? They are the ones with answers. The topic is called "Well it happened again!" I've attempted to explain this from the other point of view and I'm offering you suggestions on how to make it not happen again. I've worked in venue and events for fifteen years all over the country. Security don't just get to make up rules on the spot. And if they do: then reporting them is the appropriate and correct thing for you to do.

Sorry you feel the need to defend a person who was extremely rude and did in fact harass not only me but many others at the venue. The fact that you were not there makes you uniquely qualified to judge and assume. My attitude is directed at the single security officer not security guards as a whole. Somehow in your world the security guard works hard so it gives him the right to be rude to people. Maybe you did read my post however it is very obvious you did not comprehend it.

"Rude" is subjective. If what you posted in your OP is a word for word retelling of what happened then I would hardly call that rude and would not call it harassment. I wasn't there: so all we've got to go on are the word your have written and your words do not suggest "harassment":, they suggest adhrence to some sort of rule. You've been given plenty of options on how to deal with this if it comes up again. In fact I would recommend that if the behaviour of this one particular security guard was so rude in your mind I would lay a complaint.

Photography banned from dance shows is growing to become the default: so appreciate what you've got while you have it. And work towards keeping things the way they are: and the way to do that is to talk to the organisers of the dance comp to let the venue know that photography is allowed.


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banquetbear
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May 17, 2014 19:53 |  #33

OhLook wrote in post #16910999 (external link)
I think what you're seeing here is at least partly due to a common tendency to make an inference from "X complained about someone's treatment of him" to "X is lacking in self-awareness, and he needs to be shown how he contributed to the bad situation." Sometimes such responses are appropriate and sometimes they aren't.

People like to believe in justice. (external link) They prefer stories in which every character got a fair outcome and everything comes out even. So, for example, they'll look for ways you might have provoked the guard (did you call attention to yourself by dressing oddly?) or responded poorly (e.g., speaking in a defensive tone) when he approached you.

Another motif in some posts is criticism because the incident is still enough of an emotional issue to move you to post about it even though your dispute with the guard was resolved at the scene. Some observers believe in forgetting insults and "moving on." Individuals differ in reactions to being unjustly accused.

...I think what he is actually observing is that on messageboards people often express their opinion: because on messageboards that is simply what people do. Meta analysis on messagboard posts is like deconstructing a joke.


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spyderpig
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May 17, 2014 20:44 as a reply to  @ OhLook's post |  #34

OP, some of us get it and others don't. It's no use trying to explain it to them. Your rant is justified but like all rants they don't help much in the real world. You can take solace in knowing some people are on your side.


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OhLook
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May 17, 2014 21:57 |  #35

banquetbear wrote in post #16911681 (external link)
...I think what he is actually observing is that on messageboards people often express their opinion: because on messageboards that is simply what people do.

They do indeed, and then one can think about the possible reasons that they hold those opinions.

Meta analysis on messagboard posts is like deconstructing a joke.

Yes? Deconstructing jokes is a useful exercise for people interested in creating humor.


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banquetbear
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May 18, 2014 00:26 |  #36

OhLook wrote in post #16911889 (external link)
They do indeed, and then one can think about the possible reasons that they hold those opinions.

...so shall we dissect the motivation of your post, which dissected the motivation of other posts then?

Yes? Deconstructing jokes is a useful exercise for people interested in creating humor.

Except when they get it completely wrong, as you have. When people deconstruct a joke badly: they have completely misunderstood the point of the joke. You've completely misunderstood the point of the posts in this thread. Which makes your meta commentary meaningless.

Perhaps you could leave the armchair diagnoses for a more appropriate forum and we can get back to discussing the OP.


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OhLook
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May 18, 2014 00:37 |  #37

banquetbear wrote in post #16912114 (external link)
...so shall we dissect the motivation of your post, which dissected the motivation of other posts then?

Sure. Here's my account of my motivation. My purpose was to support the OP, who I didn't think was treated fairly by everyone who posted. If you have a competing version of what moved me, go for it, as long as you remember that I'm here, in my head, and you're out there.

Except when they get it completely wrong, as you have. When people deconstruct a joke badly: they have completely misunderstood the point of the joke. You've completely misunderstood the point of the posts in this thread. Which makes your meta commentary meaningless.

Perhaps you could leave the armchair diagnoses for a more appropriate forum and we can get back to discussing the OP.

For the sake of civility, I'll keep my thoughts about this part to myself.


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banquetbear
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May 18, 2014 01:09 |  #38

OhLook wrote in post #16912126 (external link)
Sure. Here's my account of my motivation. My purpose was to support the OP, who I didn't think was treated fairly by everyone who posted. If you have a competing version of what moved me, go for it, as long as you remember that I'm here, in my head, and you're out there.

...hey why should we trust your account of your motivation? You obviously don't trust us to know why we are posting. I'm here, in my head as well. I know why I typed what I typed and it wasn't for any of the reasons you posted.

My posts were to support the OP as well. I've given what I consider sound advice on the basis of the words he has posted here. Do you think any of my advice wasn't good? I'd much rather you addressed my posts, rather than your perception of my motivation for posting them.

For the sake of civility, I'll keep my thoughts about this part to myself.

So we can get back on topic then.


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flashpoint99
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May 18, 2014 02:19 |  #39

banquetbear wrote in post #16911676 (external link)
...why are you asking me these questions and not the venue? They are the ones with answers. The topic is called "Well it happened again!" I've attempted to explain this from the other point of view and I'm offering you suggestions on how to make it not happen again. I've worked in venue and events for fifteen years all over the country. Security don't just get to make up rules on the spot. And if they do: then reporting them is the appropriate and correct thing for you to do.

"Rude" is subjective. If what you posted in your OP is a word for word retelling of what happened then I would hardly call that rude and would not call it harassment. I wasn't there: so all we've got to go on are the word your have written and your words do not suggest "harassment":, they suggest adhrence to some sort of rule. You've been given plenty of options on how to deal with this if it comes up again. In fact I would recommend that if the behaviour of this one particular security guard was so rude in your mind I would lay a complaint.

Photography banned from dance shows is growing to become the default: so appreciate what you've got while you have it. And work towards keeping things the way they are: and the way to do that is to talk to the organisers of the dance comp to let the venue know that photography is allowed.

Pretty much figured you were in some sort of security because of your zealous defense of the security guard in question. Thanks for at least admitting that. So if security personnel do not take it upon themselves to act in a particular way then how do you explain the fact that no other officer at the venue acted in the manner of the one in question? If the organizers didn't make it clear to the security personnel that photography was allowed then all the guards would have acted in the same manner. They didn't. Taking that in to consideration and based on the fact that this guy HARASSED not just me but others at the venue it is only logical to conclude he had a personal issue of some sort .One last thing. You continue to infer that this guy was rude only in my mind. Maybe your bias or the fact that I refereed to him as a rent a cop closed your mind off to the facts and nothing from that point on was going to change your mind that this guard was just doing his job.Fact of the matter is you were not there . I was and he was not only rude to me but many others at the venue. Complaints were made to the organizers but by then the comp was already over. People put there cameras away and missed shots of their kids because of this guy so ya we all think he is a jerk and that opinion is not going to change.




  
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banquetbear
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May 18, 2014 02:46 |  #40

flashpoint99 wrote in post #16912210 (external link)
Pretty much figured you were in some sort of security because of your zealous defense of the security guard in question.

...I've never been in security. I haven't offered a zealous defense of the security guard in question. As I stated: I've worked for fifteen years in venues and events.

Thanks for at least admitting that.

I haven't admitted what you claim I've admitted at all.

So if security personnel do not take it upon themselves to act in a particular way then how do you explain the fact that no other officer at the venue acted in the manner of the one in question?

Have you considered instead of firing this question at me, firing it at the venue, as I have suggested? Why don't you let us know the answer when you find it out.

If the organizers didn't make it clear to the security personnel that photography was allowed then all the guards would have acted in the same manner. They didn't.

Are you sure? Was this one guard a supervisor?

Taking that in to consideration and based on the fact that this guy HARASSED not just me but others at the venue it is only logical to conclude he had a personal issue of some sort .

How are you defining harassed? Because what you typed in the OP doesn't rise to that definition. He told you you couldn't shoot: you told him you had permission then he left you alone. He didn't even require you produce the written confirmation from you: if he really wanted to be a prick he would have made you jump through those hoops as well.

One last thing. You continue to infer that this guy was rude only in my mind.

Well rudeness is really a subjective thing. Lets quote what you state the guard said to you again:

"excuse me ! You are not supposed to be taking photographs. Are you with this group?"

"what group are you refering too?"

"no.... "

On the scale of rudeness that is pretty low. If he had said that to me I wouldn't have considered it rude. In less than a minute you addressed his concerns and were able to keep shooting.

Maybe your bias or the fact that I refereed to him as a rent a cop closed your mind off to the facts and nothing from that point on was going to change your mind that this guard was just doing his job.

I'm not close minded at all. You are trying to convince me that something bad has happened here. I'm not seeing it.

Fact of the matter is you were not there . I was and he was not only rude to me but many others at the venue. Complaints were made to the organizers but by then the comp was already over.

Why didn't you ask the organisers to talk to the venue/security when you had the opportunity? Will this be addressed at other dance comps? What was the resolution on the complaints?

People put there cameras away and missed shots of their kids because of this guy so ya we all think he is a jerk and that opinion is not going to change.

I think its pretty clear your opinion isn't going to change. What are you planning on doing to make sure this doesn't happen again?


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May 18, 2014 09:21 |  #41

It's just the society we've created these days I'm afraid. I went to my daughters 'sing and sign class' yesterday. It's for babies up to toddlers to help them communicate before they can talk. I picked up my camera, and my other half said to leave It behind. "People wouldn't like it" was her comment.

A few years back I had a call out with work to a residential home. Knowing the property well, I took my 7D/100-400 as the location was rural with lots of wildlife. I overheard a member of female staff comment "there's a guy out there with a big camera" The maintenance man told her he knew who I was, and she replied "he could be a pedophile". The fact that the Home was an old peoples home, with most residents having Alzheimer's disease went completely over her head. Also it was at least a half mile out of the village didn't seem to be relevant either.
Whilst I'm on your side, it's only going to get worse for photographers with a DSlR/telephoto from here on in.


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