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Thread started 17 May 2014 (Saturday) 07:50
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EF-S lenses in the future ?

 
viperbass
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May 17, 2014 07:50 |  #1

I have a 60D and I enjoy it greatly. I have no near-term desire to upgrade. I would like to expand my lens range with a 10-22 in the near future.

I have the kit 18-135 lens and a 28 1.8 lens. If I get the 10-22 lens, I would have two EF-S lenses.

If my 60D camera fails or I drop it, etc. I would most probably upgrade the body to a 6D.

Who knows what the future holds. Do you think Canon would ever engineer into their full frame cameras the ability to use EF-S lenses?

I hate to invest in lenses that would be rendered useless if I upgraded to a FF body that could use the S lenses.

Plunking down $400-700 per lens gets expensive. You want lenses to be a long-term investment, but with the FF restrictions on S lenses long-term may not happen.




  
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Preeb
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May 17, 2014 08:04 |  #2

viperbass wrote in post #16910580 (external link)
I have a 60D and I enjoy it greatly. I have no near-term desire to upgrade. I would like to expand my lens range with a 10-22 in the near future.

I have the kit 18-135 lens and a 28 1.8 lens. If I get the 10-22 lens, I would have two EF-S lenses.

If my 60D camera fails or I drop it, etc. I would most probably upgrade the body to a 6D.

Who knows what the future holds. Do you think Canon would ever engineer into their full frame cameras the ability to use EF-S lenses?

I hate to invest in lenses that would be rendered useless if I upgraded to a FF body that could use the S lenses.

Plunking down $400-700 per lens gets expensive. You want lenses to be a long-term investment, but with the FF restrictions on S lenses long-term may not happen.

In reality, you can still sell them for what amounts to cheap rental. The better EF-S lenses like the 17-55 or 10-22 hold a pretty good resale value as long as they are properly cared for. I could fund most of a refurb 6D and a 17-40 L just by selling my 3 EF-S lenses.


Rick
6D Mark II - EF 17-40 f4 L -- EF 100mm f2.8 L IS Macro -- EF 70-200 f4 L IS w/1.4 II TC

  
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MakisM1
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May 17, 2014 09:33 |  #3

Buy the new EF-S 10-18 IS when it comes out ($299). How badly wrong can such an 'investment' go?


Gerry
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msowsun
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May 17, 2014 09:48 |  #4

viperbass wrote in post #16910580 (external link)
Do you think Canon would ever engineer into their full frame cameras the ability to use EF-S lenses?

It would be physically impossible because the rear of a Canon EF-S lens extends farther into the mirror box and will interfere with the Full Frame mirror as it swings up or down.

That is why EF-S lenses currently have an extra protrusion that won't allow it to mount on a FF camera. Third party "Crop" lenses don't extend as far and also don't have the "protrusion" on the lens mount, so they CAN be mounted on FF cameras without hitting the mirror.

If you were to modify the Canon EF-S mount, or use a 3rd party lens, most crop lenses will vignette very badly on a FF camera. You could then crop the image to remove the vignetting, but then you are back to a crop camera, so why bother.

The best solution is to sell the EF-S lenses as they do retain reasonable re-sale value.


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sandpiper
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May 17, 2014 10:27 |  #5

viperbass wrote in post #16910580 (external link)
Who knows what the future holds. Do you think Canon would ever engineer into their full frame cameras the ability to use EF-S lenses?

Never going to happen. The whole point of EF-S lenses is that they are cheaper to build because they can use a smaller image circle, and also can physically project into the body, because they don't have to be made to work on FF.

Some, that don't project far enough back to hit a FF mirror, can be altered to physically fit a FF camera, but the image circle is only designed to cover the smaller sensor, so the corners of a FF sensor will be outside the image circle, giving the heavy vignetting that msowsun mentions.

There is no logic in expecting Canon to decide that that they can make a cheaper set of lenses for crop cameras, if they don't have to make them fit FF as well, then deciding to alter FF cameras to take them.

It can be done, if you go the Nikon route of allowing FF camera bodies to have a crop mode that effectively just records the same sensor area as a crop camera, but that takes a massive resolution hit. It could easily be done yourself with a 6D of course, simply by shooting FF and then cropping off all the vignetting in editing. However, even that solution by Nikon wouldn't work with EF-S lenses that protrude into the mirror path.

But there is no way of getting a FF body, to shoot a regular FF image with a crop lens through the whole of its focal range, the image circle just isn't big enough.




  
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ed ­ rader
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May 17, 2014 10:36 |  #6

viperbass wrote in post #16910580 (external link)
I have a 60D and I enjoy it greatly. I have no near-term desire to upgrade. I would like to expand my lens range with a 10-22 in the near future.

I have the kit 18-135 lens and a 28 1.8 lens. If I get the 10-22 lens, I would have two EF-S lenses.

If my 60D camera fails or I drop it, etc. I would most probably upgrade the body to a 6D.

Who knows what the future holds. Do you think Canon would ever engineer into their full frame cameras the ability to use EF-S lenses?
I hate to invest in lenses that would be rendered useless if I upgraded to a FF body that could use the S lenses.

Plunking down $400-700 per lens gets expensive. You want lenses to be a long-term investment, but with the FF restrictions on S lenses long-term may not happen.

of course not.


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CollegeKid
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May 17, 2014 21:32 |  #7
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I use a 60D and a 6D. I have the 10-22, 15-85, and 60 2.8, all of which are EF-S. The rest of my lenses are Canon EF or third-party EF-mount. Oh, I also have a Canon P&S and an old Kodak 35mm film camera. I don't see a problem with having more than one format.

Buy what you need now. Sell what you don't need later. Don't try to worry about both at the same time.




  
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RHChan84
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May 18, 2014 00:28 |  #8

No. If your that worried then just buy EF only lenses.


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Reservoir ­ Dog
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May 18, 2014 02:20 |  #9

In 10 years from now, i don't think there will be APS-C sensors mounted on Reflex or Alike (if Reflex still exist)
Everything tend to go to the original 35mm size, the price of FF sensor going down every year, even cellphone manufacturer put bigger sensors in their products.

I don't want to be negative, but one day for sure EF-S will just stop to be produced, just because of the evolution of the size the sensors.

You should not forgot why the APS-C exist, it exist only because 10 - 15 years ago it was very hard and outstandingly expensive to build a full frame sensor, witch is not anymore the case today ...


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Frodge
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May 18, 2014 05:40 |  #10

Reservoir Dog wrote in post #16912211 (external link)
In 10 years from now, i don't think there will be APS-C sensors mounted on Reflex or Alike (if Reflex still exist)
Everything tend to go to the original 35mm size, the price of FF sensor going down every year, even cellphone manufacturer put bigger sensors in their products.

I don't want to be negative, but one day for sure EF-S will just stop to be produced, just because of the evolution of the size the sensors.

You should not forgot why the APS-C exist, it exist only because 10 - 15 years ago it was very hard and outstandingly expensive to build a full frame sensor, witch is not anymore the case today ...

This may well be true, but people started to realize that crop has its own usefulness on its own. Go ask anyone that shoots nature or long. I feel Canon and Nikon are stuck with aps-c because of the fact that it has it's own market because of the size, not only the cost.


_______________
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hairy_moth
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May 18, 2014 05:52 |  #11

viperbass wrote in post #16910580 (external link)
I have a 60D and I enjoy it greatly. I have no near-term desire to upgrade. ....

I would most probably upgrade the body to a 6D.

...
Do you think Canon would ever engineer into their full frame cameras the ability to use EF-S lenses?

I hate to invest in lenses that would be rendered useless

If you want an ultrawide for your 60D, but don't want it to be rendered useless if you upgrade, you should consider the tokina 11-16 f/2.8.
It is made for APS-C bodies but can be used on FF (with interesting results).

Check out this post from this thread.


7D | 300D | G1X | Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 | EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 | EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro | EF 85mm f/1.8 | 70-200 f/2.8L MkII -- flickr (external link)

  
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Colin ­ Glover
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May 18, 2014 06:36 |  #12

The deciding factor in all of this is how much the consumer can afford to spend. 15 years ago people with affordable income were spending £400 plus on a p/s camera. A DSLR cost £2.5k. Today they're spending over a grand on a camera. An entry level DSLR costs £400 plus. Photography has always been split into two distinct camps:- The snapshot takers and the enthusiasts. The latter have always been prepared to pay for gear. Years ago it was Brownies vs Slr, today it's iPhone vs DSLR. If Canon or Nikon thinks that the majority of DSLR photographers want to go FF hen they'll phase out crops. Part of this will be in deciding the desire over affordability factor, ie will the desire for FF outweigh the practicality of buying one as happened with Vcrs in the 80s and cellular phones in the 90s. Usually, something price related sparks off a rush like Sanyo's £299.00 vcr or pay as you go phones. Canon will be watching the market very closely to try and determine when that point in time will arrive and only make the move then. Personally. I think it will be the sub £1000 point.


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CollegeKid
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May 18, 2014 07:06 |  #13
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Reservoir Dog wrote in post #16912211 (external link)
In 10 years from now, i don't think there will be APS-C sensors mounted on Reflex or Alike (if Reflex still exist)
Everything tend to go to the original 35mm size, the price of FF sensor going down every year, even cellphone manufacturer put bigger sensors in their products.

I don't want to be negative, but one day for sure EF-S will just stop to be produced, just because of the evolution of the size the sensors.

You should not forgot why the APS-C exist, it exist only because 10 - 15 years ago it was very hard and outstandingly expensive to build a full frame sensor, witch is not anymore the case today ...

I disagree. Both full-frame and APSc dSLRs will still be mass market when my grandchildren start buying cameras.

The printing press did not kill education.
The television did not kill radio.
The internet did not kill television.
The I-Pad did not kill the computer.

The Post Office, film and newspapers are dying a slow agonizing death, though. Why? Convenience. What they do is more conveniently done in other ways. To keep SLRs a mass-appeal item, manufacturers will have to build in all the goodies lots of us don't like, such as GPS, WIFI and other non-photographic features. That, and the higher IQ afforded by an APS-c sensor, will keep APSc going as long as mothers have children, and humans have egos. Full frame models will always offer more high-end photo related features, and better IQ, better DOF control and durability. Both will be here when all of us are long gone.




  
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Reservoir ­ Dog
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May 18, 2014 08:06 |  #14

CollegeKid wrote in post #16912394 (external link)
I disagree. Both full-frame and APSc dSLRs will still be mass market when my grandchildren start buying cameras.

The printing press did not kill education.
The television did not kill radio.
The internet did not kill television.
The I-Pad did not kill the computer.

The Post Office, film and newspapers are dying a slow agonizing death, though. Why? Convenience. What they do is more conveniently done in other ways. To keep SLRs a mass-appeal item, manufacturers will have to build in all the goodies lots of us don't like, such as GPS, WIFI and other non-photographic features. That, and the higher IQ afforded by an APS-c sensor, will keep APSc going as long as mothers have children, and humans have egos. Full frame models will always offer more high-end photo related features, and better IQ, better DOF control and durability. Both will be here when all of us are long gone.

Hahahaha
Totally non sens, compare things than can be comparable !
BTW you forgot : Autofocus have killed FD mount, and sensor have killed film ;)

And we can predict :
FF have killed APS-C in the Reflex

FF is already taking APS-C's sells part, each brand start to put FF in a lower end or cheaper and cheaper camera to be competitive.
Just look at the Alpha 7s = Mirrorless, FF and 4k movie $ 2500 !! you think that Canon and Nikon will not react ?
Unless your are blind i let you continue to believe in the APS-C in the Reflex ( even the Reflex is called to disappear, i can't believe that my grandson will use a Reflex hahaha )


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CollegeKid
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May 18, 2014 08:53 |  #15
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Reservoir Dog wrote in post #16912473 (external link)
Hahahaha
Totally non sens, compare things than can be comparable !
BTW you forgot : Autofocus have killed FD mount, and sensor have killed film ;)

And we can predict :
FF have killed APS-C in the Reflex

FF is already taking APS-C's sells part, each brand start to put FF in a lower end or cheaper and cheaper camera to be competitive.
Just look at the Alpha 7s = Mirrorless, FF and 4k movie $ 2500 !! you think that Canon and Nikon will not react ?
Unless your are blind i let you continue to believe in the APS-C in the Reflex ( even the Reflex is called to disappear, i can't believe that my grandson will use a Reflex hahaha )

Lighten up, dude. I have an opinion. So what? People have been predicting the end of APSc since at least 2004. I don't see it. You do. Great. Keep your subscription to this thread. I'll update when one of my grandchildren buys a camera.




  
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EF-S lenses in the future ?
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