Am I Too Picky or is it Exchange Time?

Before I bought the 10D I did my homework and read extensively about focus issues, Canon’s “soft� images, “L� vs. “non L� lenses etc. I received my camera last Friday and my impression is that it just isn’t sharp enough. Am I too picky? I couldn’t afford to buy an “L� glass at this time – I plan to start this fall. For now, I purchased the 50mm f1.8 II. From what I have read, the lens has pretty good glass in a cheap housing. I have had no complaints about the mechanical aspect of it.
I have uploaded 3 large/fine jpg images which have had no modifications. They are at full file size, so keep this in mind before you click on a link.
This first picture shows some flowers on my property. I focused on one of the flowers near the center of the group and then recomposed it – keeping the shutter button depressed ½ way. The picture was handheld, but I feel I was quite steady. The shutter speed and aperture should have yielded a sharp product. Here’s the photo and EXIF file in case you can’t see it. As you will see, I have even cranked up the internal sharpening to +2.

http://genie.esu10.k12​.ne.us/~murwille/Canon​/IMG_0068.jpg

File Name
IMG_0068.jpg
Camera Model Name
Canon EOS 10D
Shooting Date/Time
7/13/2003 8:12:12 AM
Shooting Mode
Aperture-Priority AE
Tv( Shutter Speed )
1/180
Av( Aperture Value )
8.0
Metering Mode
Evaluative
Exposure Compensation
0
ISO Speed
400
Lens
50.0 mm
Focal Length
50.0 mm
Image Size
3072x2048
Image Quality
Fine
Flash
Off
White Balance
Auto
AF Mode
One-Shot AF
Parameters
Contrast Normal
Sharpness +2
Color saturation Normal
Color tone Normal
Color Space
sRGB
File Size
2404KB
Custom Function
C.Fn:01-0
C.Fn:02-0
C.Fn:03-0
C.Fn:04-0
C.Fn:05-0
C.Fn:06-0
C.Fn:07-0
C.Fn:08-0
C.Fn:09-0
C.Fn:10-0
C.Fn:11-0
C.Fn:12-0
C.Fn:13-0
C.Fn:14-0
C.Fn:15-0
C.Fn:16-0
C.Fn:17-0
Drive Mode
Single-frame shooting
Owner's Name
Camera Body No.
0620308611

In this second shot, I was just goofing with one of my wife’s daycare kids. It’s too bad I didn’t take the time to make sure the background was clear of “debris�. The pose was cute. It would have been better to flash fill it as well.
I focused on her face at or near her nose. At the very least I see a front focus tendency here. The whole thing just seems too soft. This one was shot handheld at only 1/60th sec. I suppose this one could have had some slight movement, but I didn’t think so. Here’s the photo and EXIF file:

http://genie.esu10.k12​.ne.us/~murwille/Canon​/IMG_0132.jpg

File Name
IMG_0132.jpg
Camera Model Name
Canon EOS 10D
Shooting Date/Time
7/14/2003 8:34:36 PM
Shooting Mode
Aperture-Priority AE
Tv( Shutter Speed )
1/60
Av( Aperture Value )
4.5
Metering Mode
Evaluative
Exposure Compensation
0
ISO Speed
400
Lens
50.0 mm
Focal Length
50.0 mm
Image Size
3072x2048
Image Quality
Fine
Flash
Off
White Balance
Auto
AF Mode
One-Shot AF
Parameters
Contrast Normal
Sharpness +2
Color saturation Normal
Color tone Normal
Color Space
sRGB
File Size
2205KB
Custom Function
C.Fn:01-0
C.Fn:02-0
C.Fn:03-0
C.Fn:04-0
C.Fn:05-0
C.Fn:06-0
C.Fn:07-0
C.Fn:08-0
C.Fn:09-0
C.Fn:10-0
C.Fn:11-0
C.Fn:12-0
C.Fn:13-0
C.Fn:14-0
C.Fn:15-0
C.Fn:16-0
C.Fn:17-0
Drive Mode
Single-frame shooting
Owner's Name
Camera Body No.
0620308611

This last photo is perplexing to me. I attached a Canon 250D close up lens to my 50mm lens. This time I used a tripod. I wasn’t happy with how the exposure turned out, but feel I will improve on this kind of thing as I get more used to the camera. I feel the shutter speed and aperture were OK for a good shot. I focused on the center petal at its attachment point to the center of the flower. I press the DOF preview button and the whole flower looked tack sharp to me. That not what I have here. Here’s the photo and EXIF file:

http://genie.esu10.k12​.ne.us/~murwille/Canon​/IMG_0160.jpg

File Name
IMG_0160.jpg
Camera Model Name
Canon EOS 10D
Shooting Date/Time
7/15/2003 5:02:33 AM
Shooting Mode
Aperture-Priority AE
Tv( Shutter Speed )
1/500
Av( Aperture Value )
11
Metering Mode
Evaluative
Exposure Compensation
0
ISO Speed
400
Lens
50.0 mm
Focal Length
50.0 mm
Image Size
3072x2048
Image Quality
Fine
Flash
Off
White Balance
Auto
AF Mode
One-Shot AF
Parameters
Contrast Normal
Sharpness +2
Color saturation Normal
Color tone Normal
Color Space
sRGB
File Size
2240KB
Custom Function
C.Fn:01-0
C.Fn:02-0
C.Fn:03-0
C.Fn:04-0
C.Fn:05-0
C.Fn:06-0
C.Fn:07-0
C.Fn:08-0
C.Fn:09-0
C.Fn:10-0
C.Fn:11-0
C.Fn:12-0
C.Fn:13-0
C.Fn:14-0
C.Fn:15-0
C.Fn:16-0
C.Fn:17-0
Drive Mode
Single-frame shooting
Owner's Name
Camera Body No.
0620308611

I have no intentions on giving up on the 10D. I like the camera. I would like your opinions on whether what you see is a matter of technique or whether I should be calling B & H Photo for an exchange. Is it possible that these don’t look that great on my monitor, but would print very well? My monitor is set at 1024 x 768. I have tried resizing some of these photos and even when sharpening with software – they don’t seem that sharp.

Murwille,

I am interested to have a look at your samples,...

but I am at work on a dial up connection with a notebook 12" LCD screen!

This evenong I will have a look on my home PC's 24" Sony (with DSL)

In the meantime,.. read back a few pages for titles of threads on this very subject. You may find a few explanantions for why the 10D does not sharpen the images via firmware in camera to the extent that many other digitals do.

CDS

http://www.matthewchas​e.com/forum/50mm1.jpg

This was shot this morning, handheld at ISO 100, 1/125th at f11 with my 50mm 1.8 lens, large - fine JPG, and I was near it's closest focus distance. So not quite a macro. I opened this image in Photoshop to create the outline for the focus point (which almost exactly matches where the focus point was through the viewfinder), and then saved it as a JPG 11 to maintain high quality. This image is slightly soft, which is how most all of the Canon DSLRs shoot, and I have the sharpness setting on my camera set to normal (I shoot with Adobe RGB anyways). With a moderate amount of USM in Photoshop, this image snaps right into being very sharp. This is about what I would expect from this lens, as it is quite good glass considering the price.

On the third image of the flower, it isn't as sharp as it could be. But you mentioned you used a closeup filter, which leads me to a few thoughts. The DOF at f11 for macro work is extremely small, I try to shoot at f16 or smaller for macro work, unless I only want a few millimeters in focus (literally, millimeters). The test shot I did this morning, though not a true macro, still has pretty shallow DOF (in the range of inches), and it was shot at f11. Also, I had a bit of trouble with the plants moving this morning, even though I could not feel a breeze. I could see them moving through the viewfinder, and a couple of the shots were out of focus because of this. So even though you had the camera on a tripod, there is a chance the plant could have moved slightly (and again, we are talking about millimeters to inches).

This isn't to say there isn't something wrong with your lens or camera. But I would do a few more tests before sending anything back, and try to do some that are more controlled, such as shooting a flower or other still life inside a house, where the outside elements won't be a factor. Also try some shots with flash, and use different apertures to see when / where the sharpness falls off. Also try another lens, to help determine if it is the lens or camera having the problem. My D60 had some focusing issues, but until I tested it using a friends lens, I had thought it was just my lens. I wished it was my lens! If you still don't get sharp images, then start sending things back.

Hi,

I looked at your shots and just want to comment for now that the shot of the child has all of the appearance of camera movement. Your shutter speed was 1/60th and you were using the 50mm lens. The true focal length of the lens would be 80mm and you were, in fact, using a shutter speed that was too slow for a hand-held shot of the child.

The third shot has fairly good sharpness and it could be the victim of movement brought on by the fact it was an outdoor shot of a plant and is subject to air moving around which would also account for the softness in your first shot.

I, personally, have felt that the 50mm f/1.8 II lens was not up to the same quality as the original 50mm f/1.8 and nowhere near the quality of the 50mm f/1.4.

Bob

Thanks for your replies. I posted this same question over at Digital Photography Review. They too believe the camera is O.K. I took another picture after some suggestions. It looks better:

http://genie.esu10.k12​.ne.us/~murwille/Canon​/IMG_0167.jpg

This was taken at 1/350th, f13. I'd say it's sharp enough.

Several points may help you.

DOF to your eye and DOF to the sensor are not the same animal. Download the focus test chart posted by Francis Poon and use it to see for yourself the actual DOF your camera will see at the distances you will be shooting at, with your 50mm lense and with various f settings. In your first picture, there are some flowers that are in reasonable focus, so the flowers that are out of focus are not due to shake, they have to be due to too large an apeture causing too shallow a DOF

Over sharpening in the camera prevents you from processing the images later - you cannot take sharpening off once it is applied in the camera - so it is best to retain the option of sharpening when all the other processing has been done.

An EOS 5 require the actions of a film processing laboratory to yeild a usable output. The EOS 10D requires the actions of Adobe Photoshop 'DIGITAL PROCESSING' to do the same for the images that it captures. Straight out of the camera the images are too soft, wrongly composed and the levels are mostly wrong. If you are not thinking 'DIGITAL PROCESSING' then you should not be using the 10D.

Using your pixels - if the subject of your photograph is only a small part of the picture, then you have only used a small number of pixels to capture the subject. Its resolution is therefore low and its sharpness/focus is going to be bad and the amount of 'DIGITAL PROCESSING' you can achieve is going to be severely limited. Make your subject fill as much of the frame as possible. That way you will be utilising as many of your pixels as possible and giving Photoshop the best chance of success.

ISO 400 - high ISO values allow faster shooting (less shake). If that was all that was involved, we would all be shooting on ISO 1600 for wonderful fast shots in poor light and using tiny apeture settings. The reason we are not all shooting on ISO 1600 or ISO 3200 is NOISE. In order to make the CCD respond to lower light levels, the makers have to wind up the electrical amplification in the CCD's. If you have a weak radio signal and you wind up the volume, the signal can get swamped in static noise. The same happens in the 10D if you wind up the amplification (the ISO value) the sharp picture starts to develop excessive levels of light noise.

So, a tripod, plenty of good light, an apeture that gives the desired DOF for your lense at the distance of the subject, well framed, low ISO, no sharpening in the camera - and then into photoshop - crop, levels, Bicubic expansion, Lab/USM and finally prepare for your chosen output (screen, web, print, poster etc)

Happy snapping

Frankly, I think your first image is actually pretty sharp for those items that are in focus.

There are a couple of issues here. One is that you are looking at the image greatly enlarged. At any normal print size that you would expect from a small-format camera, a print would be critically sharp, in my opinion.

Here is a crop from the center of your image, and the only thing I did was apply unsharp masking at 139% with a threshold of 2 and a radius of 0.9. It surely looks sharp to me! On a 180-dpi print, it would be tack sharp.

HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO

Thanks for the tips. I'm learning and this is a great place to do it! Thanks again!

Mark Urwiller