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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 03 Jun 2014 (Tuesday) 14:00
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Videographer asking to get my photographs?

 
Eiro
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Jun 06, 2014 00:07 |  #31

Best thing I've learned from a Millionaire friend of mine about business is not to complicate it. He told me for years, don't overthink it, don't over analyze it, make it as simple as it can be. I was stubborn in the beginning and things were just giving me a headache however slowly but surely as I relaxed and didn't complicate things the advice has worked out well.

If this was a situation that I was dealing with I would EXPLAIN to her(bride) how the whole copyright thing works and then say "It would be a delight to make this work for you with the videographer". Remember communication will help arrive at an agreement.
Who gives a flying fffff if he uses a badass image of you to promote his services ?
He is a Videographer! (People are not stupid,they will know and acknowledge 'hey the videographer has an interesting image, lets ask who shot it?' ) His skillset dies with video shooting and producing not being a photographer. If he wants to use your images CLEARLY he appreciates your work to a point that he is interested in incorporating it to make the video work right. Dont let pride or ego judge a potential business relationship with both parties. Obviously she is NOT your last client, be easy on this, it will work out in your favor in the long run.

A) A satisfied bride who can brag about how great of a "Deal" she got from the amazing photographer who shot her wedding to her lil friends on Facebook is a never-ending marketing tool for you. And soon when she gets Preggo and Fat you will be once again called upon to capture those "Precious" memories of her maternity. You smell that yet ? Thats the smell of $$$$$$. And then when the baby is born, you can be the photog to go for those priceless newborn photos and then birthday photos and then you still smelling that smell of $$$??

B) Extend your services in a not so forward way to the videographer. Also stress onto him the importance of Credit & Copyright on this particular job but don't be uptight. Talk to him in a casually professional way. Don't talk down,its not about you, you, you and your way;its about US as a team and working together to benefit each other. Flexibility is key. Let him know you will work with him on this project but next time as a professional to professional you would like to workout some details which can benefit you both financially. Thing Big,think Benjamin's,those pretty green Benjamin's(well kind of bluish now).
Compliment the sorry sucker on how great his work is and how easy it was to work with him side by side at the event,even if you don't think his work deserves it in your eyes or maybe it does.

You want to eat good and drive a fancy car and have cash in your pocket to buy whatever you want ? or you want to have a headache on your hands where the word will get around that you are a "difficult" person to work with ? You want more work ! You like money !

Think about expanding business relationships. By you blowing a little smoke up his arse with compliments and passing an idea that you want to work together in future,may stroke his ego the right way and show him that you came to him because you respect his work and you are the type of a classy guy to work with in the future. He will be thinking of the guy who was complimenting him on how great his work was and a person who actually helped him nail what he needed for a client. That you're a guy who can be relied on in a needy situation. From there-forward its all about sealing the deal and cashing that check! And don't forget to follow up. Hey you may even end up hiring him for another job in the future at a good rate because he will be more willing to work with someone who is good to him than a "difficult" person.

Remember a smart baby calf has two momma cows. Double the milk!
Work good,Eat good,Sleep good,Live Happy.

oriondog1985 wrote in post #16949145 (external link)
I'm a wedding photographer (have been for about 3 years) and I did a wedding with a videographer who is now saying he needs a few of my images to make her DVD covers? And he went through the bride, who of course probably does not understand how the whole copyright thing works (even though she signed a detailed contract stating the images are only for personal, non commercial use, etc.). I know a lot of photographers will say it's not worth starting something over this but I can't settle with the fact that someone would use my product to enhance their product which they can also use later to promote themselves to other brides??

I've thought of different scenarios and even if they did credit me on the cover, what if they edit the hell out of the images with some horrible effects-which will just be floating around with my name on it. I have no affiliation to this person and I don't owe them anything and it bothers me that they wouldn't use their own stills. I'm also a video editor and I know it is a very simple thing to do. If the bride had not had a photographer what would his back up be? I have no problem with working with other vendors like florists for example who want a photo for their website with my credit, etc.-but that would never be confused as their product like this would.

I am aware they could just do this behind my back in the end but I feel it's my responsibility to draw a line somewhere as I work very hard to build my reputation as a wedding photographer and screen everyone I choose to work for me as an assistant, etc so that everything I represent is the best it can be. I don't feel comfortable with some stranger taking my images for their company. I just don't know how to go about telling the bride without upsetting her.


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cdifoto
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Jun 06, 2014 00:37 |  #32

^People ask who shot CD cover images as often as they look at newspaper photo credits.


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memoriesoftomorrow
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Jun 06, 2014 00:50 |  #33

cdifoto wrote in post #16954841 (external link)
^People ask who shot CD cover images as often as they look at newspaper photo credits.

Exactly.

If you're a wedding photographer and you're so desperate for work that you have to buddy up to the hack suppliers... you're in the wrong game.

If you're a wedding photographer and the most memorable element of your service / product is that you didn't give away an image to another suppler... you're in the wrong game.

If you're a wedding photographer and you aren't able to simply explain the copyright situation etc to the bride without being paranoid about how they may take it... you're in the wrong game.

Incidentally it is ironic that the whole photography industry bangs on about "Exposure not paying the bills" and you shouldn't "Give work away for free" yet they cave in to both those things very easily when it comes to being able to be confident to stand to those principles to a client. I see a lot of "unconfident" replies above.


Peter

  
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bhawarlal
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Jun 06, 2014 01:21 |  #34

thanksssssssssssssss




  
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Eiro
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Jun 06, 2014 01:28 |  #35

.....And then there are plenty of insecure photographers that just know it all and that are paranoid about others using their photos,watermarking every image like crazy and squeezing every penny out of any place possible out of desperation because the competition around them is so high and could be better and they're not landing any work because their marketing strategies suck. Anyways, oriondog1985 Good Luck hope it works out with your client and the videographer. Do what you feel is right at the end thats all that matters.


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seres
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Jun 06, 2014 01:32 |  #36

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #16953626 (external link)
A few suggestions;

1 Work with Bride and Videographer to keep them happy and build customer base and relationships.

2 You should be looking to build a working relationship with this video guy, rather than worrying about his profiting from you work. Friends are good. May be too late for that?

3 Compromise between your own copyright concerns and these relationships, have your cake and eat it too, perhaps you could simply ask the video guy to forward to you his template, and then you can make the printed DVD cover for him. He gets no access to your file, Bride and video guy get your image on the cover. Puts you out on the work end of things, but protects you and also provides litnous test if the Video guy balks or complains about your kind offer.

Yes... make the printed DVD cover for him...


—Eric

  
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cdifoto
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Jun 06, 2014 01:54 |  #37

Eiro wrote in post #16954813 (external link)
Best thing I've learned from a Millionaire friend of mine about business is not to complicate it. He told me for years, don't overthink it, don't over analyze it, make it as simple as it can be. I was stubborn in the beginning and things were just giving me a headache however slowly but surely as I relaxed and didn't complicate things the advice has worked out well.

If this was a situation that I was dealing with I would EXPLAIN to her(bride) how the whole copyright thing works and then say "It would be a delight to make this work for you with the videographer". Remember communication will help arrive at an agreement.
Who gives a flying fffff if he uses a badass image of you to promote his services ?
He is a Videographer! (People are not stupid,they will know and acknowledge 'hey the videographer has an interesting image, lets ask who shot it?' ) His skillset dies with video shooting and producing not being a photographer. If he wants to use your images CLEARLY he appreciates your work to a point that he is interested in incorporating it to make the video work right. Dont let pride or ego judge a potential business relationship with both parties. Obviously she is NOT your last client, be easy on this, it will work out in your favor in the long run.

A) A satisfied bride who can brag about how great of a "Deal" she got from the amazing photographer who shot her wedding to her lil friends on Facebook is a never-ending marketing tool for you. And soon when she gets Preggo and Fat you will be once again called upon to capture those "Precious" memories of her maternity. You smell that yet ? Thats the smell of $$$$$$. And then when the baby is born, you can be the photog to go for those priceless newborn photos and then birthday photos and then you still smelling that smell of $$$??

B) Extend your services in a not so forward way to the videographer. Also stress onto him the importance of Credit & Copyright on this particular job but don't be uptight. Talk to him in a casually professional way. Don't talk down,its not about you, you, you and your way;its about US as a team and working together to benefit each other. Flexibility is key. Let him know you will work with him on this project but next time as a professional to professional you would like to workout some details which can benefit you both financially. Thing Big,think Benjamin's,those pretty green Benjamin's(well kind of bluish now).
Compliment the sorry sucker on how great his work is and how easy it was to work with him side by side at the event,even if you don't think his work deserves it in your eyes or maybe it does.

You want to eat good and drive a fancy car and have cash in your pocket to buy whatever you want ? or you want to have a headache on your hands where the word will get around that you are a "difficult" person to work with ? You want more work ! You like money !

Think about expanding business relationships. By you blowing a little smoke up his arse with compliments and passing an idea that you want to work together in future,may stroke his ego the right way and show him that you came to him because you respect his work and you are the type of a classy guy to work with in the future. He will be thinking of the guy who was complimenting him on how great his work was and a person who actually helped him nail what he needed for a client. That you're a guy who can be relied on in a needy situation. From there-forward its all about sealing the deal and cashing that check! And don't forget to follow up. Hey you may even end up hiring him for another job in the future at a good rate because he will be more willing to work with someone who is good to him than a "difficult" person.

Remember a smart baby calf has two momma cows. Double the milk!
Work good,Eat good,Sleep good,Live Happy.

There's actually a lot more wrong with this post than the whole "let's ask who shot it" thing.

The videographer doesn't want to use the photographer's image because of his appreciation for art. He wants to use it because he's either lazy or doesn't have any good frames to freeze and capture his own stills.

Videographers aren't the people brides ask for photographer recommendations. That's friends, family, facebook, wedding coordinators, venues...but not videographers. Most people don't even care enough about video to hire them in the first place. Everyone gets a venue and cake though.

Photographers don't hire videographers and videographers don't hire photographers. Unless it's a complete service paired up together, in which case you probably planned on sharing product anyway and don't have to blow fairy dust up each others' skirts.

Nobody likes a kiss-ass anyway. So compliment when you can be honest and genuine but keep your mouth shut otherwise.


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cdifoto
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Jun 06, 2014 01:56 |  #38

Eiro wrote in post #16954910 (external link)
.....And then there are plenty of insecure photographers that just know it all and that are paranoid about others using their photos,watermarking every image like crazy and squeezing every penny out of any place possible out of desperation because the competition around them is so high and could be better and they're not landing any work because their marketing strategies suck. Anyways, oriondog1985 Good Luck hope it works out with your client and the videographer. Do what you feel is right at the end thats all that matters.

It actually takes more confidence to say "no" than to bend over with no spine. Insecure ones walk on eggshells and tell the bride she's beautiful even when she's posing in an unflattering way.


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Eiro
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Jun 06, 2014 02:01 |  #39

cdifoto wrote in post #16954938 (external link)
It actually takes more confidence to say "no" than to bend over with no spine.

Yep thats it,spot on. Again,he should do what he feels best in doing and comfortable with.

You and the other feller should run a wedding photography course and sell some DVD's. Great advice in everything. There are some rookie photographers that would greatly benefit from your vast knowledge in everything.

Unsubscribing.


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cdifoto
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Jun 06, 2014 02:09 |  #40

Eiro wrote in post #16954942 (external link)
Yep thats it,spot on. Again,he should do what he feels best in doing and comfortable with.

You and the other feller should run a wedding photography course and sell some DVD's. Great advice in everything. There are some rookie photographers that would greatly benefit from your vast knowledge in everything.

Unsubscribing.

You remind me of a local used car dealer who treats his cars like bananas. He buys in batches and sells fast and slick and if they don't move quick enough he dumps them in batches at auctions. He doesn't care about cars at all, he just cares about the quickest profit.

Those of us willing to say no to a client are looking at the big picture because we actually still care about our photos and what happens to them. It's not paranoia, it's just a desire to not see them butchered (if possible) and to avoid letting others get credit for the hard work we put into them.

Now, this might seem counter-intuitive to making money but this caring is precisely why people do hire us and at far better than race-to-the-bottom shoot & burn prices.

Oh and the business person in us says "don't work for others for free." Every time you give a photo away, you worked for free. Sometimes you want to, sometimes you don't. I'll give a photo to a wedding coordinator who really made my day easy or a venue that provided an especially beautiful place to work (again making my day easy) or a caterer who kept me from becoming dehydrated before I'll give a photo to a videographer who didn't get good enough footage for his own DVD cover. Especially since he wouldn't give me video footage for my own purposes, not that I'd want or have a use for it.


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Nalauk
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Jun 06, 2014 03:42 |  #41

Has the OP phoned the video person?

Since if I've read it right the bride already has a CD with the photographs on they could have printed them for the video DVD cover and the OP would be none the wiser already, but they haven't, they have asked to use them.

Perhaps it's the bride who asked the Video person to put the lovely photos she had taken on the DVD cover and he has said he can't, it's copyrighted etc etc, but if you can get the permission he could do it - and in going back and forward it has come out as " the video person wants to print your photos on the DVD" as the bride doesn't really understand what the fuss is about?

Talk to them, and see how the ground lies, it's always best for future goodwill. If they say they didn't want to do it because of copyright but the bride insisted they are stuck as much as you are, they probably don't want the full high res file, only an approx 4x3 inch at 150ppi jpeg level 8 which you can email a file of about 200k max to them.

Give them a ring and stop getting yourself stewed up about it.




  
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memoriesoftomorrow
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Jun 06, 2014 07:50 |  #42

Eiro wrote in post #16954910 (external link)
.....And then there are plenty of insecure photographers that just know it all and that are paranoid about others using their photos,watermarking every image like crazy and squeezing every penny out of any place possible out of desperation because the competition around them is so high and could be better and they're not landing any work because their marketing strategies suck.

If that is aimed my way (especially the bit I put in bold) you couldn't be more off the mark if you tried. This is about another business offering an inferior service, acting incredibly unprofessionally and trying to profit from another business' work in a very underhand manner.


Peter

  
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Jun 06, 2014 08:02 |  #43

I would do it as a professional courtesy. People in the industry need to stick together. You never know when you might be the one needing a favor. What's the cost to you compared to picking up a little karma?


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Editing ok

  
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cdifoto
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Jun 06, 2014 08:54 |  #44

joedlh wrote in post #16955257 (external link)
I would do it as a professional courtesy. People in the industry need to stick together. You never know when you might be the one needing a favor. What's the cost to you compared to picking up a little karma?

Just out of curiosity, what would a videographer offer a photographer in terms of favors? I can't think of anything.


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memoriesoftomorrow
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Jun 06, 2014 08:57 |  #45

cdifoto wrote in post #16955344 (external link)
Just out of curiosity, what would a videographer offer a photographer in terms of favors? I can't think of anything.

Karma? :lol:


Peter

  
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Videographer asking to get my photographs?
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