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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 03 Jun 2014 (Tuesday) 14:00
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Videographer asking to get my photographs?

 
nathancarter
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Jun 06, 2014 16:13 |  #61

But if you pick #2, are you going to explain to him that this is a one-time thing, that if his business model depends on your work, then you want a cut?


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Jun 06, 2014 16:16 |  #62

nathancarter wrote in post #16956165 (external link)
But if you pick #2, are you going to explain to him that this is a one-time thing, that if his business model depends on your work, then you want a cut?

Thats fair.




  
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Jun 06, 2014 16:19 |  #63

nathancarter wrote in post #16956165 (external link)
But if you pick #2, are you going to explain to him that this is a one-time thing, that if his business model depends on your work, then you want a cut?

I would make him sign an agreement that the image is only to be used on the DVD's purchased from this wedding only and that no other rights are transferred to him.

I would also probably let him know that if I have another wedding with him in the future that he will have to take his own shots or pay me for mine. That way when he gets the bride involved, you can point to that communication and say "I told him before hand that I will not be providing my products for his service unless he compensates me."


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thetathink
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Jun 06, 2014 16:21 |  #64

Honestly, who the hell cares? Let him use the stupid photo so she can have a nice looking DVD cover. It's going to her family, not the shelves of Wal-Mart.


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nathancarter
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Jun 06, 2014 16:58 |  #65

thetathink wrote in post #16956187 (external link)
Honestly, who the hell cares? Let him use the stupid photo so she can have a nice looking DVD cover. It's going to her family, not the shelves of Wal-Mart.

How far down that rabbit hole do you want to go?

I think there was a thread not too long ago where the event planner wanted to use the photographer's engagement photos to make a guest album. You'd just hand all those over for free too, so the planner can make a profit off that album?


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benji25
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Jun 06, 2014 17:01 |  #66

nathancarter wrote in post #16956261 (external link)
How far down that rabbit hole do you want to go?

I think there was a thread not too long ago where the event planner wanted to use the photographer's engagement photos to make a guest album. You'd just hand all those over for free too, so the planner can make a profit off that album?

The cover to the DVD is not the selling point of the DVD. It is the video on it. There is a difference between that and someone taking your images to make an album and sell the exact same images that you are selling as the main product.


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Jun 06, 2014 17:22 |  #67

gonzogolf wrote in post #16956171 (external link)
Thats fair.

but but but... you can come off as a jerk and he'll think unpleasant things about you. And he can tell the bride. ;)

IMHO it just depends on the situation


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Jun 06, 2014 19:08 |  #68

benji25 wrote in post #16956269 (external link)
The cover to the DVD is not the selling point of the DVD. It is the video on it. There is a difference between that and someone taking your images to make an album and sell the exact same images that you are selling as the main product.

The hell it isn't. The selling point of the DVD is the whole package. It's a presentation piece. Otherwise it'd be labeled with a Sharpie and put in a paper sleeve. Why would a videographer even ask for photographer images if the cover didn't matter?


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Alan ­ Rubio
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Jun 07, 2014 02:13 |  #69

benji25 wrote in post #16955502 (external link)
I think keeping your client happy is way more valuable than giving the guy an image for a DVD cover that will be seen by like, 5 people.

You might want to consider this advice, I'd swallow my pride and give a dog a bone.


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Jun 07, 2014 04:50 |  #70

all this fuss over one image that goes on the DVD box , that in reality hardly anyone will ever see...

just tell him he cant edit it in any way and give it to him....


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djphotosyd
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Jun 07, 2014 09:57 |  #71
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benji25 wrote in post #16955450 (external link)
You never know - that is the whole point. What if that videographer wants professional headshots? He may call you. What if a bride comes to him first and says "do you know a good wedding photographer?"? What if you missed a shot (card error, camera prob etc.) and you can get a usable one out of his video?

For very little time and effort you help a guy out and expand your network instead of burning bridges over stupid fears of a vast marketing campaign being run off your photo.

I think you are either dreaming or very new to the business.
You are going to give your work to someone that can't even organise their own DVD cover images themselves in case one day they may want headshots done??? The chances of them being prepared to pay as against wanting a freebie are about 100:1.
As for the referal, so what? Is a potential referal so important to you that you'll bend over and take it where the sun don't shine every time so other unprofessional asks you to bail them out?

If as a shooter you couldn't explain your position to the Bride so she understood why you wouldn't give the video guy your pics without her being pissed off, then your own skills again need to be looked at or she is never going to be happy anyway.

I can't for the life of me see why the video guy couldn't pull any amount of frames off his vid to use and is asking the shooter anyway. Furthermore, why is it an absoloute nessacity to have a pic on the cover anyway? If he hasn't got anything suitable, then just use their names and be a professional and adapt and overcome FFS.

Miss a shot and need one off a video??? Your taking the piss now right?
If the video frames were good enough for the shooter to use, then WTF can't the video guy use one himself?? His quality requirements are going to be a lot lower than the shooters so there is no reason he has to use someone else's work on HIS product.

Why would you want to expand your network to someone like this? All that will happen if you do work with them in the future is have to bail them out again or listen to the bride moaning what a bad job they did.

It's not a stupid fear to want to distance yourself from unprofessional operators. It's smart business.

And as for the people saying it's not going to be used for a commercial product and only a few people will see it, then it can't be important so the Video guy should be able to use a still from the Million or so he has captured on the day shouldn't he?
Clearly it's not that important with only a few people seeing it.

And I fully agree with the comment that if the thing that sticks in the B&G's Mind is you didn't give the dodgy video guy some pics for HIS DVD cover then you have not done your own job properly or they are whingeing clients that will never be satisfied and complain about you no matter what.

There is no law that says there HAS to be a pic of the couple on the cover. If he hasn't got anything suitable ( hard to believe) then he'll just have to go to plan B.




  
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benji25
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Jun 07, 2014 12:38 |  #72

djphotosyd wrote in post #16957338 (external link)
I think you are either dreaming or very new to the business.
You are going to give your work to someone that can't even organise their own DVD cover images themselves in case one day they may want headshots done??? The chances of them being prepared to pay as against wanting a freebie are about 100:1.
As for the referal, so what? Is a potential referal so important to you that you'll bend over and take it where the sun don't shine every time so other unprofessional asks you to bail them out?

If as a shooter you couldn't explain your position to the Bride so she understood why you wouldn't give the video guy your pics without her being pissed off, then your own skills again need to be looked at or she is never going to be happy anyway.

I can't for the life of me see why the video guy couldn't pull any amount of frames off his vid to use and is asking the shooter anyway. Furthermore, why is it an absoloute nessacity to have a pic on the cover anyway? If he hasn't got anything suitable, then just use their names and be a professional and adapt and overcome FFS.

Miss a shot and need one off a video??? Your taking the piss now right?
If the video frames were good enough for the shooter to use, then WTF can't the video guy use one himself?? His quality requirements are going to be a lot lower than the shooters so there is no reason he has to use someone else's work on HIS product.

Why would you want to expand your network to someone like this? All that will happen if you do work with them in the future is have to bail them out again or listen to the bride moaning what a bad job they did.

It's not a stupid fear to want to distance yourself from unprofessional operators. It's smart business.

And as for the people saying it's not going to be used for a commercial product and only a few people will see it, then it can't be important so the Video guy should be able to use a still from the Million or so he has captured on the day shouldn't he?
Clearly it's not that important with only a few people seeing it.

And I fully agree with the comment that if the thing that sticks in the B&G's Mind is you didn't give the dodgy video guy some pics for HIS DVD cover then you have not done your own job properly or they are whingeing clients that will never be satisfied and complain about you no matter what.

There is no law that says there HAS to be a pic of the couple on the cover. If he hasn't got anything suitable ( hard to believe) then he'll just have to go to plan B.

That was just an example of something off the top of my head. What if someday he gets a job for a company that needs work done? What if his friend is getting married? The whole point is for little to no work you open up the chance for that to happen. You are in essence leaving a door open instead of shutting it.

Most brides are not as well versed in photography and copyright laws as we are. From their perspective they paid for an image, they want it on their DVD and you are telling them they can't have it. Are you in the right? Probably. But my entire point is that it costs you nothing and it will make your client happy.

You aren't expanding your network to this guy but rather his network. Don't do business with him again after this. But when someone he is working with needs something done would you not rather have them come knock at your door and you turn them away than not come knocking at all?


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memoriesoftomorrow
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Jun 07, 2014 16:59 |  #73

benji25 wrote in post #16957536 (external link)
That was just an example of something off the top of my head. What if someday he gets a job for a company that needs work done? What if his friend is getting married? The whole point is for little to no work you open up the chance for that to happen. You are in essence leaving a door open instead of shutting it.

Most brides are not as well versed in photography and copyright laws as we are. From their perspective they paid for an image, they want it on their DVD and you are telling them they can't have it. Are you in the right? Probably. But my entire point is that it costs you nothing and it will make your client happy.

You aren't expanding your network to this guy but rather his network. Don't do business with him again after this. But when someone he is working with needs something done would you not rather have them come knock at your door and you turn them away than not come knocking at all?

All your responses this far strongly suggest to me that you are very new to the business. The all work from any quarter, is worth having type response is a typical indicator of that. It isn't.

As I said before if your delivering the goods yourself the bride should be raving long before the wedding. The potential for her not to refer based on a DVD cover image would clearly demonstrate a very weak impression being left by a photographer's actual product. If this scenario would cause a non referral it isn't because the photographer didn't provide an image I can assure you.


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