Need Help With 2 Flash Yongnuo Wireless

Hello,

I'm really hoping you guys and gals can help me understand this. I've sat down a few times over the last year to try and play around with this stuff and figure it out, but I always end up getting overwhelmed, confused and frustrated and just put my gear away for another time; tried again a few minutes ago and I'm still lost. So first of all, this is what I have for the setup:

• Canon 7D
  
• Yongnuo YN468-II Speedlite (ETTL-II)
  
• Yongnuo YN565EX Speedlite (ETTL-II)
  
• (4) Yongnuo YN622-C Wireless Transmitter/Transceive​rs
  

• Wireless Function - Enable or Disable (I would assume I would need this set to "Enable")
  
• Master Flash - Enable or Disable. I don't know what to set this to. I feel like I've had it set to "enable" and "disable" and the flashes still fire regardless; but maybe I'm having a brain fart.
  
• Channel - This is just to change the channel from camera rather than transmitter. I'm cool with that one.
  
• Firing Group - A+B+C, A:B, A:B C. I'm guessing that I would choose A:B because I only have two flashes? Does each letter represent a single speedlite?
  
• Flash Exposure Compensation - I understand that.
  
• A:B Fire Ratio - Is this how much power comes from one flash versus another?
  

RandMan wrote in post #16968059

• Wireless Function - Enable or Disable (I would assume I would need this set to "Enable") See below
  
• Master Flash - Enable or Disable. I don't know what to set this to. I feel like I've had it set to "enable" and "disable" and the flashes still fire regardless; but maybe I'm having a brain fart. See below
  
• Channel - This is just to change the channel from camera rather than transmitter. I'm cool with that one.
  
• Firing Group - A+B+C, A:B, A:B C. I'm guessing that I would choose A:B because I only have two flashes? Does each letter represent a single speedlite? Correct
  
• Flash Exposure Compensation - I understand that.
  
• A:B Fire Ratio - Is this how much power comes from one flash versus another? Correct.
  

Start off simple, and just set both receivers to the same channel and group (1A)
Set both flashes, and flash setting on camera, to ETTL II (this should take away the option to raise and lower power)
Dial in FEC on the back of the camera as needed.

Then set both flashes, and camera setting to manual. Also activate groups A/B. Set one receiver to 1A, and one to 1B (this should give you back the option of raising/lowering power to each flash. (tip: place some sort of label on each receiver to which group it is on ie, A/B/C)
Wireless can be set to enabled/or not it, is for the built in wireless function of the 7D. Since you are using triggers it is not needed.
I leave master flash disabled when using wireless triggers.

Your questions are about how Canon Flash technologies work. You need to come to terms with that first. (See the sticky READ ME FIRST at the head of this forum.)

Then you will find it easy to use the 622Cs, which implement those technologies.

And, read TOYUG and follow the getting started section. (See link in my signature.)

Disabling wireless treats all slaves as one flash. No ratios, no individual power settings. However, second curtain sync is now available in the menu if that's desired, a departure from Canon's optical protocol.

Disabling the master disables a flash attached to the on-camera 622. Its original function, when using a master flash on the camera to control slaves optically, was to prevent the master from contributing to the exposure.

If you do have a flash attached to the on-camera 622 and it's enabled, it responds to group A settings in the camera's menu.

Being old, wrinkled, penniless, and married, I don't have access to attractive young models. I make do for practice with my granddaughter's toys. Brenda Walmart is always available and cooperative.

Examples using 622s. Two lights, rim light camera left, key high camera right and a reflector under the doll to fill the chin shadow. Manual flash settings used to prevent E-TTL frustration:

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/nDYu​Wy

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/nEPa​TA

Thanks for a full answer, OVF. And your model is definitely cuter than my Patsy, who has nothing beneath her neck, clothed or unclothed.

Thanks everyone - certainly a lot of information I need to study up on. And CliveyBoy, that guide looks incredible! Just skimmed through it for a bit this morning and I will have to spend some coffee-sipping time working my way through it.

OK - definitely made a little bit of positive headway this morning and I'm beginning to have a much better grasp on this stuff. There are a few little nuances that few me for some loops, so I'd like to list them and get an understanding of the reasons behind them.

*For my entire session I had the camera set to 1/200, f8, and iso400

1) I was just playing around with random configurations. At one point, I had my 565ex transmitter-mounted on the camera's hot shoe, and my 468 on a stand a few feet away. I had the mode set to A:B C so that I could adjust the 468 independently.

Something really bizarre happened when I set the firing ratio to 8:1. The shutter would open, and then kind of jam for a second, one or both flashes would fire (couldn't tell exactly), then through the viewfinder I could see a dimly lit version of what was in front of me for a split-second, then the shutter would close. No image was recorded/saved to the camera; same thing twice in a row.

2) I played around with multi mode by holding the channel set button on the transmitter (hot shoe) until solid green. Then I set my 468 flash to manual mode. If I went into the camera's flash menu at this point, it still gave me the option to adjust the ratios. If a remote flash is set to a manual power setting, then how on earth could a ratio still be adjusted (which would alter the power output)?

3) I noticed that when I was in A:B C mode (with same setup as the beginning of 1 above), certain things I adjusted in the camera's menu would only affect the 468 (off camera) flash. Like if I changed the flash zoom in camera, the 468 in group C would change zoom, but the 565 would stay as is and nothing would change. *Update - Just found the answer to that one in Clive's guide.

Any insight on these observations?

1) The dimly lit version in the viewfinder would normally be the preflash just before the shutter opens. Don't know about the rest of the question.

2) You mean mix mode? The transmitter is still in E-TTL as would be the on-camera flash. Ratios are still available for other possible slaves and the on-camera flash that may still be in E-TTL mode. The manual slave is on its own and simply triggered by its 622.

3)

oldvultureface wrote in post #16971529
2) You mean mix mode? The transmitter is still in E-TTL as would be the on-camera flash. Ratios are still available for other possible slaves and the on-camera flash that may still be in E-TTL mode. The manual slave is on its own and simply triggered by its 622.

Yes sorry, I did mean mix mode. Now, is mix mode only for combining manual and ETTL? Or could I use it to have two flashes both set to ETTL, but be able to dial in different FEC and zoom values for one of them? Or is there a better way to do that. For example:

Transmitter on camera hot shoe with an ETTL flash set to +2/3 and aimed at a wall for bounce and key light.

Other transmitter on a light stand with another ETTL flash set to -2 1/3 and aimed somewhere in the background for some gentle fill (maybe with a constant/fixed zoom of 35mm just to add another variable).

Is this something I would use mixed mode for?

Mix mode is for, as you stated, combining manual and E-TTL. That's set on the transmitter. You can have individual zoom settings by holding down the CH SET button on the receivers and then setting your desired zoom on the remote flashes. That's called zoom lock and is covered in Clive's guide. You would stay in normal remote mode on the transmitter for that setup as you're not mixing manual and E-TTL.

An example of using mix mode would be a couple of remote flashes set to manual to light a wedding reception room. The on-camera flash would be left in E-TTL for lighting guests at tables and closer shots of dancers, the manual flashes keeping the background from going black.

Hmmmmm. So how would I go about doing what I described, where I have two flashes and can adjust each one's exposure compensation individually? Or is that basically the purpose of the ratios?

*1 Hour Later. Ooh ooh ooh - I think I figured it out, and if I did I am going to be so incredibly thrilled. So, here's what I just did and you guys tell me if this is all correct:

I put a transmitter on the camera's hot shoe, and flash 1 (we'll label it for simplicity's sake) mounted on the transmitter.
A second transceiver with flash 2 mounted on it, obviously hanging out remote/wirelessly (actually just sitting on the couch next to me).
I set the mode in camera to A:B C
Using flash 2's transceiver, I assigned it to group C
Everything in TTL

Now, with what I've learned so far in this thread, as well as Clive's phenomenal guide which I actually just printed a few minutes ago so I can travel with it , here's what I think I have the capability to do:

Use certain parts of the camera's flash menu to isolate control only to flash 2. I can use "Grp.C exp. comp" to adjust flash 2's FEC independently, as well as adjusting the zoom level on the flash itself to "lock" those settings to the flash.

Then, for FEC on flash 1, I can either use the camera's primary method from the regular info screen, or I can go into the flash menu and use "Flash exp. comp" to adjust it for only flash 1. Also, if I adjust the zoom range from within the flash menu, it will only change on flash 1, hence leaving all the settings I applied to flash 2 untouched and as is.

Is this all correct? If so I'm going to be one cool, jivin' cat with this stuff.

I think you're right on both counts. After spending a few minutes toying with your configuration, the flashes' FECs appear to be independent and zoom can be locked on flash 2 and 1 will still follow the lens.

It's of no help whatsoever at the moment, but what RandMan is trying to do can be done very simply with the forthcoming YN-622C-TX. Sometime soon... Sigh!

With the suggested work-around, the global FEC will affect the reference exposure for the Group C exposure: they add together.

CliveyBoy wrote in post #16973451
With the suggested work-around, the global FEC will affect the reference exposure for the Group C exposure: they add together.

Can you explain this more clearly please? It sounds important but I don't quite understand what that means.

Seems the FECs of flash 1 and 2 aren't independent. FEC set in the camera's menu or with the top LCD button is global; it affects both flash 1 and flash 2. If you set flash 1 to +1 FEC and flash 2 to +1 also, flash 2 will now be +2.