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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 28 Jun 2014 (Saturday) 19:06
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Roxie2401
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Jun 28, 2014 19:06 |  #1

Probably a simple answer, but I'm just beginning to attempt using flash outdoors. Using the 600EX-RT on a 5D MK III. Was shooting some street characters, some wearing hats, so I wanted to try to eliminate facial shadows. Since I was outdoors, I had the flash pointed straight ahead, seeing no reason to use "bounce" since there was nothing to bounce off of.

Got great shots, except for one thing - a shiny spot on the person's forehead, everything was illuminated just fine.

I never liked the "Stofen" type diffusers but with the flash in the forward position, any solutions to the forehead reflection?

Thanks




  
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DC ­ Fan
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Jun 28, 2014 19:22 |  #2

Roxie2401 wrote in post #17000160 (external link)
I never liked the "Stofen" type diffusers but with the flash in the forward position, any solutions to the forehead reflection?

Thanks

Makeup. (external link)




  
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mike_d
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Jun 28, 2014 23:26 |  #3

Get the flash farther from the lens axis or dial back the flash power a bit.




  
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Roxie2401
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Jun 29, 2014 12:46 |  #4

mike_d wrote in post #17000470 (external link)
Get the flash farther from the lens axis or dial back the flash power a bit.

Mike, can you explain a little more about "farther from the lens axis?"

The "makeup" response touched a nerve - I doubt that I can ask random street characters to apply some makeup - and what is of interest, when I see "professional" new photographers taking shots at (example) political people or Hollywood types - or other "news makers" on the street, I see the flash dead ahead and wondered if they are getting the scene lit or just the face.

Any help is much appreciated!




  
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mike_d
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Jun 29, 2014 13:07 |  #5

Roxie2401 wrote in post #17001369 (external link)
Mike, can you explain a little more about "farther from the lens axis?"

Picture a line running straight through the middle of the lens perpendicular to the sensor. That's the lens axis. If you were to put a flash right on that line, its light would travel straight down the line, hit the subject, and bounce back directly down the line and hit the sensor. Imagine doing this into a mirror. You'd basically blind the sensor.

Small cameras and even DSLRs with popup flashes have their flash very close to the lens axis. So the flash tends to get bounced back almost directly into the lens resulting in that classic "flash" look that people usually find distasteful. Not only is the light very flat, ie even and lacking in contrast, but anything shiny like an oily forehead or cheek bone, looks overly bright.

If you were to get the flash farther away from the lens axis, like up on a flash bracket, or arm's length up and left from the camera, the reflections off the shiny parts of the face wouldn't get bounced back so directly into the sensor. Of course, there's limits to what you can practically do outside of a studio environment.




  
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Roxie2401
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Jun 29, 2014 13:12 |  #6

mike_d wrote in post #17001392 (external link)
Picture a line running straight through the middle of the lens perpendicular to the sensor. That's the lens axis. If you were to put a flash right on that line, its light would travel straight down the line, hit the subject, and bounce back directly down the line and hit the sensor. Imagine doing this into a mirror. You'd basically blind the sensor.

Small cameras and even DSLRs with popup flashes have their flash very close to the lens axis. So the flash tends to get bounced back almost directly into the lens resulting in that classic "flash" look that people usually find distasteful. Not only is the light very flat, ie even and lacking in contrast, but anything shiny like an oily forehead or cheek bone, looks overly bright.

If you were to get the flash farther away from the lens axis, like up on a flash bracket, or arm's length up and left from the camera, the reflections off the shiny parts of the face wouldn't get bounced back so directly into the sensor. Of course, there's limits to what you can practically do outside of a studio environment.


Mike, so even with the 600EX-RT up about four inches (no pop-up) that is not far enough above the lens axis?




  
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WillMass
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Jun 29, 2014 13:47 as a reply to  @ Roxie2401's post |  #7

A flash bracket could help. If using ettl, dial in -(minus)2/3 stop of flash compensation. That should get you close.


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abbadon31
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Jun 29, 2014 14:27 |  #8

Flash bender


I AM SHOM

  
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mike_d
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Jun 29, 2014 20:05 |  #9

Roxie2401 wrote in post #17001404 (external link)
Mike, so even with the 600EX-RT up about four inches (no pop-up) that is not far enough above the lens axis?

Its somewhat a case of farther is better. A 600EX on the hotshoe is better than a pop-up. A flash bracket or handheld flash is even better. An assistant with a battery-powered studio strobe, 60" umbrella, radio triggers, and a step ladder would be even better but not as practical.




  
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Houston1863
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Jun 29, 2014 20:14 as a reply to  @ mike_d's post |  #10

Like Miked, I too was about to suggest using triggers. If you were out with a friend shooting street scenes or had a friend or partner with you, the flash could be held away from the camera and fired by triggers. Something relativity inexpensive like YN-622cs would do the trick. You may still need to power down the flash if not using a diffuser.

Keep enjoying your photography :)


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drumsfield
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Jun 30, 2014 12:11 |  #11

mike_d wrote in post #17000470 (external link)
Get the flash farther from the lens axis or dial back the flash power a bit.

This....


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Roxie2401
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Jul 01, 2014 07:46 |  #12

WillMass wrote in post #17001468 (external link)
A flash bracket could help. If using ettl, dial in -(minus)2/3 stop of flash compensation. That should get you close.


Since I was using ETTL, what is the effect of using flash compensation? Does the ETTL still try to achieve the original flash output or does it "know" to measure it first, then reduce it by the compensation amount?




  
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OceanRipple
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Jul 01, 2014 08:01 |  #13

Roxie2401 wrote in post #17004835 (external link)
Since I was using ETTL, what is the effect of using flash compensation? Does the ETTL still try to achieve the original flash output or does it "know" to measure it first, then reduce it by the compensation amount?

FEC (with Canon it's separate to EC) biases the ETTL II flash power solution. So ETTL II comes up with an answer - in terms of Speedlite(s) output - and then dials that up or down as per your FEC setting. ie It measures - comes up with its default answer but then applies your compensation/correctio​n (to the flash power, alone). HTH




  
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pictureman62
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Jul 01, 2014 15:22 |  #14

Roxie, sent you a pm.


Capture today, for everyone to enjoy tomorrow!:D
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Submariner
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Jul 01, 2014 18:11 as a reply to  @ pictureman62's post |  #15

Shoot upward, with the pull out - out, see the manual. P28 its called the catchlight panel or similar.
Works if you are reasonably close.

Prefer OCF myself!


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