What CPS Told Me About Focus Issues with My 7D

I have owned a 7D for 4 yours. I've been generally pleased with it but, lately, I've grown increasingly frustrated with the inconsistency in focusing. I know, I know. That's been discussed over and over and I am not one that thinks I have a "bad" copy. What I have found is that I get more shots in focus with my 60D than I do my 7D so I decided to get down to the bottom of that.

First, let me explain what I shoot mostly and where the issues have come. I shoot live performances (dance and magic shows) regularly. The lighting is often low and I shoot mostly at ISO 6400. I have tried several different focus settings on the 7D and still my 60D was more consistent. In addition, I find that my 7D will miss focus occasionally when shooting portraits in good light.

I sent it to Canon for servicing and they found that the imaging sensor assembly was incorrectly adjusted. After they repaired it, I took my 7D with me to a magic convention that I was photographing. I was shooting primarily with a borrowed 5D III (which was amazing in its focus accuracy!) but I still used the 7D. I found it was still missing focus too often (about 50% of the stage performances) so I went back to the 60D. In addition, the 7D once again missed focus on a well lit portrait.

So, after re-reading all the many posts and columns on the Web on the best way to set up a 7D for accurate focus, I called Canon today and spoke with a representative. She said some things that surprised me. First, she said never to use AI-Servo when taking portraits or even slow moving subjects. I have always used AI-Servo all the time. In AI-Servo, she said, the camera is looking for movement and when there isn't any, it will make focus errors. She even said that I should try One-Shot focus for stage performances unless they are moving very fast. I had always assumed that AI-Servo focus would work fine if you locked in the focus and let go of the button. (I use rear button focus.) So, I'm going to try that but I wondered how many here agree with that?

The second thing she said that surprised me is that the "60D will focus more accurately in low light because it is newer technology." I know the 60D is a newer model than the 7D but I've never read that it will focus more accurately in low light than the 7D. Anyone else ever heard that before? (When she said that the technology in the 70D and 5D III was newer and, therefore, would focus better in low light, I wasn't surprised. It's just the comment that the 60D would be more accurate, too.)

Anyway, I just thought I would throw these comments out and see what other 7D users think.

Interesting. I guess in theory the focus thing sounds plausible.

The 60D and the 7D have the same sensor, right? I think that second thing is malarkey.

Full disclosure: I do not own either... but I am interested in peoples thoughts.

AF sensors are different than the imaging sensors, so it could be possible?

As for the AI Servo vs One Shot, on my 1D4, it mattered what lens was used. AI Servo will twitch a lens' AF system, where on others AI Servo will simply lock the lens and it won't budge.

For example some 3rd party lenses do poorly in AI Servo on subjects that don't move much, but with a USM L lens, AF is more sure and locks on. This may just be to some more closed loop AFing that some Canon lenses do with the body vs 3rd party lenses.

magicmikey wrote in post #17021823
I called Canon today and spoke with a representative. She said some things that surprised me. First, she said never to use AI-Servo when taking portraits or even slow moving subjects. I have always used AI-Servo all the time. In AI-Servo, she said, the camera is looking for movement and when there isn't any, it will make focus errors. She even said that I should try One-Shot focus for stage performances unless they are moving very fast. I had always assumed that AI-Servo focus would work fine if you locked in the focus and let go of the button. (I use rear button focus.) So, I'm going to try that but I wondered how many here agree with that?

The second thing she said that surprised me is that the "60D will focus more accurately in low light because it is newer technology." I know the 60D is a newer model than the 7D but I've never read that it will focus more accurately in low light than the 7D. Anyone else ever heard that before? (When she said that the technology in the 70D and 5D III was newer and, therefore, would focus better in low light, I wasn't surprised. It's just the comment that the 60D would be more accurate, too.)

Anyway, I just thought I would throw these comments out and see what other 7D users think.

I do agree with what i put in bold.
I can agree with what i underline and put in italic because it can make sens.

But (yes there is a "but" ) when i do birds for example, i'm in AI Servo (single point with expansion) and when the birds do not move or stay a while on the same branch i'm still on AI-Servo and my 7D spot on at ... 99.99% (just to not say 100%)

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17021914
As for the AI Servo vs One Shot, on my 1D4, it mattered what lens was used. AI Servo will twitch a lens' AF system, where on others AI Servo will simply lock the lens and it won't budge.

For example some 3rd party lenses do poorly in AI Servo on subjects that don't move much, but with a USM L lens, AF is more sure and locks on. This may just be to some more closed loop AFing that some Canon lenses do with the body vs 3rd party lenses.

That Also !!!
lenses used are important too.
Put only L lenses on your 7D and it will give you back awesomeness

I never owned the 7D, but read that it has a more advanced AF system than the 60D possesses. I know that my keeper rate was high with my 60D. Also, one big complaint about the 60D was the lack of MFA, but honestly I never came across a lens that needed adjustment on my 60D. I suppose since the 60D is a newer body, maybe there is some truth to better AF on it. I don't think the sensor matters as much as the actual AF system when it comes down to it. One thing that turned me away from the 7D were the threads I was reading regarding soft focus on the 7D. Most times it was written off as inexperience with the camera, which may be true, but I was new enough that for that reason alone, I steered clear of the 7D. Now years later, I see people still having focus issues with it. The Canon tech may be reading from script to answer specific questions, I don't know.
As I said, my 60D was an amazing camera which rarely let me down, and when it did, most of the times it was user error. I did own the 70D for awhile and watched the threads with the inconsistent focus, buy my copy was great. I've seen it said that the 7D and the 70D share a lot of the same focus systems, but again, I have never used the 7D. Following the 70D focus issue threads, I started seeing more 7D owners contributing their issues with the 7D focus and how it was sent to Canon over and over and never really was fixed. MY 70D was quick to lock on, and the images were impressive. It did make my 60D seem a bit aged, but it still held it's own. The only reason I let my 70D go was because I moved up to the 5D3. One question I have is this, do you think the focus issue has gotten worse over time? or are you just now realizing the extent of it when comparing it to other cameras. You mentioned you've used it for 4 years, so it had to be a pretty decent performer to support your needs.

4 years old also, my 7D is still an amazing camera, focus system excellent and easy to understand.
But there is some set up to do for your needs, if you use the default set up, you might be time to time disappointed by what people call "performance issues" or "spot issues".
I personally think that 90% of these threads speaking about AF issues, it's because people didn't really get in to understand how the AF of their camera works (70D or 7D).
Roughly they said "i sent my camera to Canon for AF issues, they sent it back but didn't solve the problem"
To solve a problem it should have a problem first. Second RTFM the manual before to send the camera to Canon !
All the "problems" i got with my cameras, i RTFM immediately, and strangely, i ALWAYS found out that the problem was me !

Well obviously in this case, there was indeed an issue with the 7D hardware, and it is possible they haven't completely fixed the issue.

Reservoir Dog wrote in post #17021984
........All the "problems" i got with my cameras, i RTFM immediately, and strangely, i ALWAYS found out that the problem was me !

hahaha .... pleased I'm not alone on that one

I suspect one of the motives for getting my 5D3 and good glass was that "if my pics don't look right", I can only blame my lack of skill and not the gear


cheers
Dave

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17022022
Well obviously in this case, there was indeed an issue with the 7D hardware, and it is possible they haven't completely fixed the issue.

Yes sure, but just to be curious i would like to know all the 13 config he is using in C.FnIII:Autofocus/Driv​e and in Autofocus point selection.

Sure, I would make sure the AI Servo speed setting is set to slow, and then run a test again.

http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=TDizJ_5EuWw

To answer some of the questions. I went from a Rebel XTi to the 7D so it was a big jump in focus accuracy. I don't think the camera has gotten worse. I just think I've gotten more demanding.

I've tried a number of focus settings but I'll run through what I have on the C. FnIII settings (I used the settings recommended by several on sportsshooter.com:

1.) AI Servo Tracking Sensitivity -1
2.) 0: AF Priority/Tracking Priority
3.) 0: Main focus point priority (I was planning on switching to Continuous AF track priority
4.) 0: Focus search on
5.) 0: AF Microadjustment Disable
6.) I have all AF areas enabled
7.) 1: Continuous
8.) 1: Auto (VF display illumination)
9.) 1: Enable (Display all AF points)
10.) 0: Enable (Focus display in AI Servo/MF)
11.) 0: Enable (AF-assist beam firing)
12.) 1: Select different AF points (Orientation linked AF point)
13.) 0: Disable (Mirror lockup)

In trying to increase my focus accuracy, I have tried AF point expansion, Single point AF, Spot AF. The CPS rep said I should not use Spot AF (I had stopped using it a while back after reading that it mostly beneficial when doing macro photography.)

I have tried One Shot AF but I can't really say I used it extensively so I will do that now. I have no L lenses (not in my budget although the 70-200 f/2.8L IS II is on my list of future purchases.) I currently own and use a 50 f/1.4, 85 f/1.8, 10-22, 17-55 f/2.8, and a Tamron 70-300 f/4 - 5.6 VC.

Prior to sending the 7D to Canon, I had tested it thoroughly with my 17-55 f/2.8 which is very accurate on my 60D and found it very inconsistent. That's what led me to send it to Canon.

My primary purpose in calling Canon today was to ask if they recommended any changes to C.FnIII settings but I never got to that point as she quickly focused (no pun intended) on my use of AI Servo.

First at all you are not making BIF

I show you my C.FnIII, be aware that is for my needs and my needs only, i use it with one point auto focus with expansion, you can try it, i will recommend also to rent a "L" lens for 1 or 2 days to make a comparison if still not spot on 90%, you might got a real problem

1.) AI Servo Tracking Sensitivity +Fast (plenty of peoples will not agree coz they misunderstood it with function 3, so i don't agree with them coz of conf nº3 even if these 2 config can be linked and you are not making bird in fly passing behind trees so you need a fast tracking sensitivity!)
2.) 0: AF Priority/Tracking Priority
3.) 1: Continuous AF track priority (if an obstacle pass in front for 1 or 2 second the camera will not track another subject - witch is not the function 1 http://cpn.canon-europe.com …ion/tipsandtric​ks/1604.do)
4.) 0: Focus search on
5.) 2: Adjust by lens (all my lenses are micro adjusted and you will get some very nice good surprise when it's done so you should do it!)
6.) I have all AF areas enabled
7.) 0: Stop at AF area edges (i don't want to loose the calculating power of the camera by getting the AF searching for an area that i am not currently on it, because if i'm not on the subject usually a part of the subject is out of frame already so no need to take picture)
8.) 1: Enable (VF display illumination)
9.) 1: Enable (Display all AF points)
10.) 0: Enable (Focus display in AI Servo/MF)
11.) 0: Enable (AF-assist beam firing)

My 7D has always had good AF results in general, but I can offer a few observations which seem to be true with my gear:

1) Canon lenses do focus and track better.
2) My L lenses seem to give me better AF results than the others.
3) One Shot will sometimes lock focus in lower light than Servo.

Might be completely different for others. I use AI Servo full time except I have one C mode set up for One Shot, used for quick snaps. Frustratingly, I missed focus on a couple of portraits last weekend - and both were taken in One Shot!

magicmikey wrote in post #17022110
My primary purpose in calling Canon today was to ask if they recommended any changes to C.FnIII settings but I never got to that point as she quickly focused (no pun intended) on my use of AI Servo.

You know, usually when you call them, they just read the answers on the screen in front of them and have no idea what there are speaking about