National Aviary reqesting photos

Looking for a little advice. A few months back I attended a field trip at the National Aviary with my daughters school. I was asked to take pictures for the class to be used in their yearbook, end of year video, etc. As always, I posted the pics to Flickr for the teacher, parents and students to view. In addition to sending to these folks, I also sent the link to the aviary for them to view the pics. Now, a few months later, I have been contacted by the marketing director for the Aviary. She is asking if she can use the pics for marketing purposes provided the kids have signed releases(which I contacted the school to find out). In her initial email she asked what arrangements could be made for her to use the pics. I replied and asked how she typically handles these arrangements and she said that I could just create a dropbox folder and share with her. So basically, she is requesting to use the pics for free. Looking for any advice on how some of you may handle this situation. Would you just hand over the pics? Request a fee?

Thank you in advance!

Adam

I take inquiries on a case-by-case basis... Sometimes, I see opportunities like this as a type of networking/advertiseme​nt. By the way, LOVE the National Aviary! We used to have passes there, but don’t make it out to Pittsburgh as much as we used to sadly!

Generally, I always charge for any planned commercial work... However, I also shoot at amusement parks as my hobby so I have been contacted a few times by parks and such who have seen my hobby work posted on Flickr. A few weeks ago, I was contacted by someone from a VERY popular Orlando attractions fan site who put together an extremely nice digital booklet of a Halloween event I attended there at Universal Orlando. He got permission from me to use my photos in it (which will later be released as PDF) and every photo is clearly credited to me and such. I see it as a way to market myself. The book was so nicely put together, I see it as free advertising. I was really proud of those images I took there, so to see it in that form with potentially thousands of people to see it upon release is exciting.

Also while in Florida, I was speaking with the media director at a smaller family run park. We talked a bit, exchanged information and later was contacted to get a few photos for social media usage. Again, I was credited and saw it as another "foot in the door". A week after I sent them the requested photos, they start posting them on facebook and everything and it was been pretty cool to see (of course, credited). I thought about charging, but the amusement park industry is all about connections. Everybody knows one another, so all it takes is the right person to stumble on my work, ask about who I am, etc… I can have some really nice work coming my way.

But my point is, you have to weigh the opportunity potential... Sometimes, consider "free" photos a way of marketing but require your name/website/whatever to be noted with the images, or place other restrictions on them. I am not always planning on charging for every photo of mine that is used, but it does have to benefit me in some way… Either in my pocket, advertising or connections.

Hope this helps some!

awilson18 wrote in post #17022456
Looking for any advice on how some of you may handle this situation. Would you just hand over the pics? Request a fee?

Hi Adam,

My response would depend to a large degree on the nature of the National Aviary (I am in the UK, so know nothing about it). If it is an organisation dedicated to conservation and preservation of rare species of birds, then I would happily support that by just handing over the pics.

If it is primarily just a large collection of birds that is open to the public, then I would want paying for them. They want the images for marketing, in other words they expect to gain business by using them, then they should be prepared to pay. I am sure the printers who produce the hard copy will be paid, the person running the website they go on will be paid, why should the photographer get nothing?

Rather than simply quoting a fee, I would first ask them what their budget is for the images, and how they intend to use them. They will either make you an offer or move onto the next person in the hope of getting free images. If they do give you a price they have in mind, you can always try and negotiate upwards "well, usually for that usage I would charge $xxx, but seeing as you have a tight budget, and I would like to support the cause of informing people about the birds of the world and their struggle to survive, I could let you use them for $xxx".

Allow some wiggle room in that figure as they will probably want to negotiate something inbetween and you may need room to haggle. If a deal is struck, then make out a contract specifying permissible use and the period the licence will run for.

Invertalon wrote in post #17022493
I take inquiries on a case-by-case basis... Sometimes, I see opportunities like this as a type of networking/advertiseme​nt. By the way, LOVE the National Aviary! We used to have passes there, but don’t make it out to Pittsburgh as much as we used to sadly!

Generally, I always charge for any planned commercial work... However, I also shoot at amusement parks as my hobby so I have been contacted a few times by parks and such who have seen my hobby work posted on Flickr. A few weeks ago, I was contacted by someone from a VERY popular Orlando attractions fan site who put together an extremely nice digital booklet of a Halloween event I attended there at Universal Orlando. He got permission from me to use my photos in it (which will later be released as PDF) and every photo is clearly credited to me and such. I see it as a way to market myself. The book was so nicely put together, I see it as free advertising. I was really proud of those images I took there, so to see it in that form with potentially thousands of people to see it upon release is exciting.

Also while in Florida, I was speaking with the media director at a smaller family run park. We talked a bit, exchanged information and later was contacted to get a few photos for social media usage. Again, I was credited and saw it as another "foot in the door". A week after I sent them the requested photos, they start posting them on facebook and everything and it was been pretty cool to see (of course, credited). I thought about charging, but the amusement park industry is all about connections. Everybody knows one another, so all it takes is the right person to stumble on my work, ask about who I am, etc… I can have some really nice work coming my way.

But my point is, you have to weigh the opportunity potential... Sometimes, consider "free" photos a way of marketing but require your name/website/whatever to be noted with the images, or place other restrictions on them. I am not always planning on charging for every photo of mine that is used, but it does have to benefit me in some way… Either in my pocket, advertising or connections.

Hope this helps some!

Thank you for the feedback. Do you have the client sign anything acknowledging they must provide credit on the photos? Sorry, new to this whole thing...LOL

sandpiper wrote in post #17022512
Hi Adam,

My response would depend to a large degree on the nature of the National Aviary (I am in the UK, so know nothing about it). If it is an organisation dedicated to conservation and preservation of rare species of birds, then I would happily support that by just handing over the pics.

If it is primarily just a large collection of birds that is open to the public, then I would want paying for them. They want the images for marketing, in other words they expect to gain business by using them, then they should be prepared to pay. I am sure the printers who produce the hard copy will be paid, the person running the website they go on will be paid, why should the photographer get nothing?

Rather than simply quoting a fee, I would first ask them what their budget is for the images, and how they intend to use them. They will either make you an offer or move onto the next person in the hope of getting free images. If they do give you a price they have in mind, you can always try and negotiate upwards "well, usually for that usage I would charge $xxx, but seeing as you have a tight budget, and I would like to support the cause of informing people about the birds of the world and their struggle to survive, I could let you use them for $xxx".

Allow some wiggle room in that figure as they will probably want to negotiate something inbetween and you may need room to haggle. If a deal is struck, then make out a contract specifying permissible use and the period the licence will run for.

Thanks Sandpiper!

A few factors

1) Its critical to establish usage of the images. The request for model releases is a clear indicator of commercial advertising use. Its extremely unlikely that the school has a model release for each child that can be assigned to an outside third party. I would recommend a new model release to cover commercial use by the aviary be signed by parents to 100% confirm permission.

2) Agreeing on compensation or budget is essential, but I would be willing to be very flexible in this situation. Even if no direct $$$ are offered-a donation in kind from the class, free memberships for you and the kids, t-shirts or other merchandise, or a free future trip for the school would valuable compensation.

After seeing that the aviary is actually an independent one that has been given status by congress and not actually paid for by our tax dollars, i would say that #2 above is what I would do. This would also increase the likelyhood that a parent would sign a waiver.

For example, I would never sign a waiver that would make a photog money off my child in this way without being compensated as well in some way. That compensation does not need to be direct cash, but could be a donation to the school of tickets for the kids to attend. if they are using it comercially, then I would expect quite a bit of compensation to go to the school.

Appreciate all the feedback! Still waiting to hear back from school regarding the release(s).

Haven't heard back from the school as of yet regarding the release. However, the Aviary has agreed to discuss a reasonable compensation for select photos. Sorry, I am completely new to this, but should I sign over the rights to the photos, and if so, is there a general form I can use for this? I guess the obvious question is, what in gods name do I charge for pictures?

As always, thank you for the help!

Don't sign over the rights. You grant license for them to use the photo for a specific given purpose for a given mount of time. Whatever you guys agree to, but at least you need to agree to something.

mikeinctown wrote in post #17024986
Don't sign over the rights.

Signing over all the rights would amount to transferring ownership. You could never get income from that work again. I'm negotiating with a book author about use of photos, and yesterday I had occasion to send this link to her representative:

http://www.authorsguil​d.org …oving-your-book-contract/

The information there is for writers, but it applies to makers of images. Be careful about the language in an agreement.

Do be sure to say that the rights you are granting are "non-exclusive".

Also, be sure to include a line that says that "no rights may be extended to any third party, or to any entity, public or private, corporate or individual, other than the National Aviary".

Additionally, getting releases can be a PITA. You may ask the aviary to do the necessary legwork, and to contact the school/parents themselves. After all, they, as the publisher, are the ones who are liable should releases not be obtained. I have put the burden of obtaining releases on my clients, and it has saved me a lot of trouble and inconvenience.

awilson18 wrote in post #17024979
Haven't heard back from the school as of yet regarding the release.

They probably won't be of much help. The release that we use at my elementary school covers internet and print media for school use only- pretty much the school and district's website and their yearbook and newsletters. I don't think the school can allow you to use their release to make money from the kids' pictures. However, you could ask each parent to sign a real release. But, if you wanted to sell a picture of my kid to someone else to use commercially, there better be something in it for me...multiply that times ever how many kids are in the pictures and you don't have much room for profit.

Again, thank you everyone for your input. I've been told the Asst. Superintendent will be getting in touch with me today(Tuesday) to let me know how to proceed.

... and?

John