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Thread started 17 Jul 2014 (Thursday) 18:57
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what is the quick and easy website to sell images that I've taken at the event?

 
enuff4life
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Jul 17, 2014 18:57 |  #1

I'm in a situation that I might be working at the soccer camp for a week or two. They offered me as the only photographer at the camp and they just want group pictures at the begining and the end of the camp. During the camp, I can freely take pictures and sell the prints to parents. There will be around 240 kids attending at the camp (9~3pm)

Here are some of my choices.

Plan A.
make a photobooth and display pictures on a laptop (or print out some of them) so that parents can take a look at it and order it at the camp. For group pictures, I will print out several copies on next day to sell it.

Plan B
Hand out a brochure that they can take visit the site and order it online. It may ship out (I don't prefer) or can be picked up at the end of the camp.
(But my concern is that they might just "save as" the pictures on their computer and not ordering it)

Pricing.. would it be reasonable?
5x7 $5
8.5x11 $10
raw image files for $10?
Videography for 1 hour of a game, only recording one kid for $150




  
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juicedownload
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Jul 17, 2014 22:20 |  #2

I think it depends on the market. Like what class are these kids and parents in? Are they more wealthy? I think the best way to sell is on-site by request that day, which would involve a lot of work. Usually it's easier to sell after and be sure to communicate your website via cards, email, etc.

A few years back, I photographed 3 teams for a soccer tournament in one day. Crazy schedule, multiple locations, almost as bad as some weddings. I had the team coach email all the parents with a link to the gallery and for purchases. Even though the parents were somewhat wealthy (fairly expensive to be on the team), sales reached maybe $150 worth of prints. Tbh, nearly a complete waste of my time, but I did learn a few things. Like the benefits of have a grip so you can comfortably shoot vertically, pricing matters (I actually gave discounts because several complained it was too high) and that I don't really enjoy soccer photography. I'm guess I'm just not much of a soccer guy.

Your prices sound reasonable, but consider to ask someone on the team like a parent/friend what is reasonable. Shipping will be a high cost if you mail them individually to addresses. I would definitely consider offering digital, but be sure to watermark that image up. Digital is the least amount of work on your end.


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enuff4life
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Jul 17, 2014 23:47 |  #3

juicedownload wrote in post #17038692 (external link)
I think it depends on the market. Like what class are these kids and parents in? Are they more wealthy? I think the best way to sell is on-site by request that day, which would involve a lot of work. Usually it's easier to sell after and be sure to communicate your website via cards, email, etc.

A few years back, I photographed 3 teams for a soccer tournament in one day. Crazy schedule, multiple locations, almost as bad as some weddings. I had the team coach email all the parents with a link to the gallery and for purchases. Even though the parents were somewhat wealthy (fairly expensive to be on the team), sales reached maybe $150 worth of prints. Tbh, nearly a complete waste of my time, but I did learn a few things. Like the benefits of have a grip so you can comfortably shoot vertically, pricing matters (I actually gave discounts because several complained it was too high) and that I don't really enjoy soccer photography. I'm guess I'm just not much of a soccer guy.

Your prices sound reasonable, but consider to ask someone on the team like a parent/friend what is reasonable. Shipping will be a high cost if you mail them individually to addresses. I would definitely consider offering digital, but be sure to watermark that image up. Digital is the least amount of work on your end.

Thanks for the great write up! The area is about mid wealthy area. However, selling prints at the scene might be really tought....

Why should I watermark the image, if I sold the digital one? Wouldn't it be watermark before they purchase?




  
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Jul 18, 2014 00:00 |  #4

enuff4life wrote in post #17038805 (external link)
Why should I watermark the image, if I sold the digital one? Wouldn't it be watermark before they purchase?

He means when they are on the website being viewed by parents deciding which photo to buy.


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djphotosyd
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Jul 18, 2014 10:06 |  #5
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Forget about online.
It's dead, it's done, it's unprofitable, it's nothing more than giving people your images for nothing no matter how watermarked, small or anything else.

If you are serious about having a chance of making any worthwhile money from your pics you either need to do onsite sales OR better still, Pre sell the pics.

Do something like the parents pay you $XX dollars up front and you ONLY shoot the kids that are paid. This way you have plenty of time to concentrate on your clients not waste time on people that have no intention of buying. You could then upload the pics and the parents can download whatever they like or give you the numbers of the ones they want as prints or files.

FORGET about on spec selling online. It is a complete and utter waste of time. If you want to play tiddly winks to massage your ego rather than actually make money, then go ahead. Otherwise pre paid or onsite is your only hope.




  
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juicedownload
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Jul 18, 2014 11:44 |  #6

djphotosyd wrote in post #17039606 (external link)
Forget about online.
It's dead, it's done, it's unprofitable, it's nothing more than giving people your images for nothing no matter how watermarked, small or anything else.

If you are serious about having a chance of making any worthwhile money from your pics you either need to do onsite sales OR better still, Pre sell the pics.

Do something like the parents pay you $XX dollars up front and you ONLY shoot the kids that are paid. This way you have plenty of time to concentrate on your clients not waste time on people that have no intention of buying. You could then upload the pics and the parents can download whatever they like or give you the numbers of the ones they want as prints or files.

FORGET about on spec selling online. It is a complete and utter waste of time. If you want to play tiddly winks to massage your ego rather than actually make money, then go ahead. Otherwise pre paid or onsite is your only hope.

I agree about on-site and pre-paid as the ideal way to go for profit. A lot of momentum is lost the following day and sales are less likely. Although being a non-established photographer (in the case of the OP), I think it would be difficult to get pre-paid orders (as in before seeing images). Although it's definitely worth a try. Could give you an idea of interest OP. And if doing on-site orders, means having a laptop(s) for customer review and orders. OP will likely need an assistant. Looks like the photo booth idea may be the most profitable, but also a lot of work.


I know another photographer who did student sports after graduating college. Visited a lot of after school sports, handed out cards, did the online ordering. I assume he lived with his parents (I called him once and his mom answered). There's no way he had proper income. A few years later, he pursued wedding photography and now he's making better money.


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djphotosyd
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Jul 19, 2014 07:03 |  #7
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juicedownload wrote in post #17039832 (external link)
Although being a non-established photographer (in the case of the OP), I think it would be difficult to get pre-paid orders (as in before seeing images).

Although it's definitely worth a try. Could give you an idea of interest OP. And if doing on-site orders, means having a laptop(s) for customer review and orders. OP will likely need an assistant. Looks like the photo booth idea may be the most profitable, but also a lot of work.

I honestly think this is a perfect example of where ( god forbid!) business skills come in.
Chances are if he WAS an established shooter, no one would know him the first time he did this anyway. Unlike the endless rot and garbage I read about reputations being so important, they are far from the be all and end all of your business. If you do no advertising and you only get customers by referal, then it is. However if you are like99% of businesses in the world that do promote and get new clients, then reputation is completely redundant.

What IS important here is how the OP presents himself. If he APPEARS to know what he is doing, Is confident, in control, has his marketing/ sales materials organised and laid out, People will do as they normally do and give him credit for being able to do what he says.

I have walked into loads of work I have never done before and never been questioned on it. I was up and running and making money first time out. Just because I haven't done something dosen't mean I can't do it. You take a bit from all the other experience you have and do the job. One of the last new things I tried, I booked the gig and then went to the place the week before, got the organiser to talk to the parent of a photogenic kid, did some sample shots of said kid to put on a poster and was there shooting and selling the 7 days later.

You have to have the stones to go into these things and MAKE them work and not be easily put off.

It would be really important in this instance to appear professional, especially by NOT charging amateruish prices. $5 for a 5x7 and and 10 for an A4 is just insulting yourself and wasting your time. OH yeah, I hear everyone say say" But if I'm too expensive, no one will buy!"
Guess what? If you are too cheap, they will know you area half assed try hard with what you are doing and won't buy either!

The pricing here needs to be $15 for a 5x7 and $30 for an 8x11. Throw in a discount of 5 for the price of 4.

Digital file sales have worked well for me in many markets in Multiples.
1-5 on USB, $50, 6-10 $75, 10+ $100. Must be same kid although if they are buying the 10+ deal, I let them incorporate every kid in the family. Also goes down a real treat when they decide on say the $75 deal and have 8 pics and are trying to decide which one when you put all 8 on the disk and say something like " Sorry, you are taking too long to decde on this, You are just going to have to take all the pictures for the $75 and I don't want to hear and complaints! *BIG GRIN*
The parents will think you like you just gave their kid a life saving blood transfusion.
What the hell am I going to do with the extra pics anyway? May as well build some good Karma and this goes a loooooong way with that and get great feedback to the organisers about what a wonderful bloke you were.

The thing here if it is going to fly is make it look professional and like the shooter is not doing it as a sideline but rather it's take it or leave it on the part of the parent. And what parent wants their kid to miss out on something some other kid will get?
I'd milk that angle for all it was worth.

The other one would be hammer it home, " No pay, no pics taken".
If no one goes for it, all that would have happened is the OP shoots all the kids, stuffs around editing and uploading and sales will be nil while steals will be 240.

As a fall back, I'd do onsite sales.
For 240 kids, -myself- with that few I'd tend to do my 3 print package and PRE PRINT the lot. I sell one sheet at 20, 2 @ 25 and 3@ 30. one sheet is some 6x8's with wallets, the other is 5x7, 6x4 and some fillins and the other is 1 full size pic. They choose whatever sheet they want.

IF -if- ( did I make the IF clear?) there is the opportunity to get in front of all the parents, say at some function/ meeting/ presentation/ game day.... at the end, this is how I would do it.
Yeah, yeah, I know!!! some pics won't be sold!! God forbid again!
Who bloody cares?? Your print cost will be your print cost and if your print prices to the customer are anywhere in the ballpark, you'll only have to sell 1 in 9 to be in front. If that's all a person can do, they must be a lousy shooter or an idiot business person.

Admittedly I print all my own event pics which brings the price right down but I could still make money if I sent them out. At a pinch, the OP could do it down and dirty and just shoot a pic of each kid, put a border round it, " ABC soccer camp, wherethefukarewe? 2014 " and print them to 5x7's. $15 ea, 2 for 25.
Lay them out on a table, watch the parents pick them up and buy. I do it ever single time at charity and corporate dinners let alone other sports events and never fail to walk away with a dollar. So far my worst effort with this was $330 clear for 3.5 hours work. If you call it that, more like 20 min shooting, 45 min printing, the rest of the time sitting on my backside waiting for the event to finish and do the sales.
I figured where I went wrong and the next weekend did a smaller event and cleared $560 in 3 hours.

Yeah, I had a pile of left over unsold prints. So what? I made $330 and $560 CLEAR so had no problems when I got home chucking them in the bin.

For thse things these days, online sales is just a waste of time and effort and more aggressive, professional, out of the box thinking is required to have a hope of making any remotely worthwhile $$$.




  
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rgs
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Jul 20, 2014 15:24 |  #8

I shoot class reunions and sports often and I always pre-sell. I never print on-site because, the few times I have tried, it was unprofitable and a distraction from actually making the images. Set up as large a display as possible and show the photos as soon after they are made as possible. That's the correct use of the laptop - not on-site printing.

The OPs suggested prices are too low. I would charge $7.00 for 5x7 and $15 for 8x10. With kids, I would also offer a 10x20 for $25. This kind of work is not an extension of studio sales or wedding photography, your prices must be high enough for a good profit (with volume selling) and low enough that the clients will trust you to pre-pay.

You DO need an online presence (some will insist) but not as a primary selling method. Websites tend to attract viewers (and thieves) who do not pay. Play it down some and increase the price by about 15% (pays for the website) and add shipping. Then tell the customer the best price is available as a prepay. Look into ShootProof  (external link)for you website. If you have under 100 images, they're free. Make sure the website has right click disabled and a watermark in the center of the image. Make sure the client knows that the watermark is only for web security and will not be a part of any prints or digital downloads.

Many photos today are never printed - they wind up in e-mail or on Facebook. So you do need to offer digital downloads. ShootProof (external link) will let you offer digital downloads in three resolutions. Unlike portraits and wedding photography, assume that the first sale is probably the only one you will get. So price your digital downloads as the initial sale - not as though it's a replacement for lost additional sales later on. Remember you have NO expense in a digital download - it's all profit.

One more thing. I've mentioned ShootProof (external link) several times. This is a really good selling platform. Unlike others(SmugMug, ZenFolio, ect.), they do not charge a commission on sales. They have a reasonable subscription fee (free if you have under 100 images) and they only deduct credit card fees and lab fees (unless you self fulfill) from your sales. Digital downloads cost nothing (except credit card fees). Their partner labs include Bay Photo, ProDPI, WHCC, and Black River Imaging. If you choose to use their labs, the print order is sent directly to the lab and then shipped to your client. All you do is receive the profit. If you want to use a different lab, you just have to do more of the work yourself and all you will pay them is credit card fees. It's really a great service and is exactly what you need for the work you are doing.


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djphotosyd
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Jul 20, 2014 21:43 |  #9
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rgs wrote in post #17044230 (external link)
I never print on-site because, the few times I have tried, it was unprofitable and a distraction from actually making the images.

How was it unprofitable?
Even at your own specced prices which are half of mine, If a 5x7 costs you .75C and you sell it for $7, (still too cheap) that's reasonable profit.

As for distraction from making the images, how is this possible? I have someone print the pics so I'm not distracted and in the rare cases I'm just doing a small event on my own, I shoot then print.
Did you have some difficulty printing the pics?

Make sure the website has right click disabled and a watermark in the center of the image. Make sure the client knows that the watermark is only for web security and will not be a part of any prints or digital downloads.

None of this will stop them stealing the pics if they want. The other factor is they don't steal them at all. Anytime they want to see the pics they just go to the online gallery on their phone or laptop and show everyone they like.

At the end of the day ( or night) there is nothing like the impulse, spur of the moment buy. That's why the prime position at the supermarket is right near the registers.
I Do pre print and on jobs where I'm shooting thousands of people a week where there isn't time to do that and I just onsite sell, the sales drop dramaticaly. I just have to live with that but where I can pre print, that's the option I take every time.




  
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rgs
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Jul 20, 2014 23:50 |  #10

djphotosyd wrote in post #17044881 (external link)
How was it unprofitable?
Even at your own specced prices which are half of mine, If a 5x7 costs you .75C and you sell it for $7, (still too cheap) that's reasonable profit.

As for distraction from making the images, how is this possible? I have someone print the pics so I'm not distracted and in the rare cases I'm just doing a small event on my own, I shoot then print.
Did you have some difficulty printing the pics?

I either don't show any increase in sales for the increased effort or I have to pay an additional person to print. In the case of pre printing, which I have never been in a position to do but may fit the OPs circumstance, I suspect it would be very profitable.

djphotosyd wrote in post #17044881 (external link)
None of this will stop them stealing the pics if they want. The other factor is they don't steal them at all. Anytime they want to see the pics they just go to the online gallery on their phone or laptop and show everyone they like.

At the end of the day ( or night) there is nothing like the impulse, spur of the moment buy. That's why the prime position at the supermarket is right near the registers.

Locks are designed to keep honest people honest. Right click protection and watermarks let people know that they can't just take the image. A thief will steal anyway and would not buy. Anyone who would be satisfied with a stolen print with an obvious watermark across the center of the image is never going to buy so there is no real loss of profit to you. 90% of my sales are pre-paid at the event. My website is for the other 10%, for digital downloads (which I do not do at the event), and - since I am often shooting class reunions - for the benefit of those who were not able to attend. My clients expect a website but I emphasize pre-paid sales at the time of the event. Anything I make on online sales is a bit like a little royalty after the work is done.

It looks like we are in substantial agreement as to the value of online sales but your circumstances have allowed pre-printing. My events simply don't allow that but pre-paid sales are very good for me. I use online sales but don't rely on that at all. The OP's circumstances may need different methods. I just offer my experience for whatever it is worth. I do not think the OP should expect online sales alone to be successful.


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what is the quick and easy website to sell images that I've taken at the event?
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