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Thread started 18 Jul 2014 (Friday) 01:10
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Flashlight torch

 
Tareq
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Jul 18, 2014 01:10 |  #1

Hey again,

Do you have any recommendation about a good small torchlight that is good power to light some subjects at night while taking photography in dark places?

I want something can be carried in pocket and easy for hand carry and not heavy, but it can put enough power to light and expose a subject let's say with enough long exposure between 10-30 seconds.

I prefer it to have a rechargeable battery, not those batteries that can't find rechargeable ones, and i prefer it to be a white light, LED maybe or do you prefer something else white flash?


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Jul 18, 2014 01:15 |  #2

Surefire and HDS systems are my favourite choices, but they are pricey, and a little bit of overkill.

Fenix, Sunwayman, Olight, Nitecore, 4Sevens are all very good, and reasonably priced.


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Tareq
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Jul 18, 2014 01:22 |  #3

Thank you very much!

You gave me names of the brands, but can you give me models names or numbers so i can narrow my search? or if you can post what you use so i can see if it meets my needs.


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Jul 18, 2014 01:36 |  #4

I really don't know how much power output is good enough, i don't want very powerful but also not weak either, i may end up with many many models if i don't know everything i can look at including power output, are there videos showing demos or presenting those lights in use outdoor?


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Jul 18, 2014 01:38 |  #5

I use this Fenix LD20 - http://www.amazon.com …-Flashlight/dp/B004CXNY​3G (external link) Got me through the military and now for production work.


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Tareq
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Jul 18, 2014 01:43 |  #6

Headshotzx wrote in post #17038940 (external link)
I use this Fenix LD20 - http://www.amazon.com …-Flashlight/dp/B004CXNY​3G (external link) Got me through the military and now for production work.

Thanks!

Strange you posted this one while i found many on eBay with higher output and much much cheaper like about 20-30% of this one, so what is special with this one than cheapo ones from eBay?


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gakoenig
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Jul 18, 2014 02:09 |  #7

I use to work for a noted flashlight company...

It is very important to understand the situations you will be working in to use a flashlight for photography. Are we talking about adding some highlights within the frame? Are we using it as a key-light to get focus, and switching it off for the actual shot? Are you just looking to bathe the scene in light?

Most of the work in field photography these days is in the off-camera flash department (check out David Hobby's Strobist for some excellent resources). Not so many people are using flashlights to light scenes, but with the power output on LEDs getting so good; I could see it becoming a more common occurrence. It's something I've looked into (casually) at Luma.

You'll need to think about a few things:

Power:
Measured in Lumens. Anything under about 100 is not going to be great for photography use. That's OK because getting 100 lumens out the front of a light these days is pretty trivial (just a few years ago, a 2 CR123 cell flashlight with 100 lumens was considered super bright; now keychain lights do that).

Beam Profile:
For photography, this is easily as important as the power output. At one end of the spectrum, we have "Thrower" lights, with focused beams designed to push light out in a very narrow cone and illuminate distant subjects. At the other end are "Mule" lights - literally just a bare LED at the end face of the light with absolutely no focusing. Most EDC/Tactical/Common flashlights are a bit of a hybrid, with reflectors engineered to produce both a narrow throwing beam (the "hot spot") as well as a wider area for illuminating around you ("spillover).

As I am sure you can imagine, the beam profile will have a profound effect on a light's utility for photography, especially on near subjects. You might want a narrow beam for the effect in a photograph, or you might want a mule light to add illumination scene wide. A narrow beam is easy; a mule light requires a LOT of power since it's energy is spread out in such a wide fashion.

Temperature and CRI:
With editing what it is now, I don't know that these are really critical factors unless you plan on some sort of zero editing (even the AP allows for color correction though). LED's all emit blue light (so very high in the temperature range) and the diodes are treated with a compound that filters that light to yellow. More of this filtering compound brings the color temperature down and color rendering index (CRI) up... but always at the expense of light output. If color temperature and CRI are important, you will be giving up power to get it. Having said that, color correction is easy with digital photography, so collecting the raw pixels may very well take priority and you can fix it in post.

Price wise, I would buy a few different low end lights to experiment and see what works for you. Fenix and 4Sevens are, I think, at the top of the quality pack when it comes to reasonably priced, high quality, well supported lights.

If you want to step up a bit in quality, SureFire, Elzetta and Malkoff Devices are making stuff that will blow the Chinese brands out of the water in reliability and quality, but also price. American flashlights are almost all focused on military/police use (since those are markets that spend money for quality); that means they will have high output with throw-focused beam profiles that have well engineered spillover. They are excellent, but it might not be the kind of light you want for photography.

At the very high end, custom makers can build you precisely what you want. Custom made throwers are easy to come by, custom made mules are also easy. If you want a hybrid beam deal though, the engineering to do proper reflectors is simply beyond the scope of most custom makers (there is a lot of simulation software involved, and very precise parabolic machining, finishing and often optics engineering involved). Having said that, I own one McGizmo Titanium Mule light with a daylight temp high CRI LED... and it's amazing.


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Tareq
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Jul 18, 2014 02:25 |  #8

gakoenig wrote in post #17038966 (external link)
I use to work for a noted flashlight company...

It is very important to understand the situations you will be working in to use a flashlight for photography. Are we talking about adding some highlights within the frame? Are we using it as a key-light to get focus, and switching it off for the actual shot? Are you just looking to bathe the scene in light?

Most of the work in field photography these days is in the off-camera flash department (check out David Hobby's Strobist for some excellent resources). Not so many people are using flashlights to light scenes, but with the power output on LEDs getting so good; I could see it becoming a more common occurrence. It's something I've looked into (casually) at Luma.

You'll need to think about a few things:

Power:
Measured in Lumens. Anything under about 100 is not going to be great for photography use. That's OK because getting 100 lumens out the front of a light these days is pretty trivial (just a few years ago, a 2 CR123 cell flashlight with 100 lumens was considered super bright; now keychain lights do that).

Beam Profile:
For photography, this is easily as important as the power output. At one end of the spectrum, we have "Thrower" lights, with focused beams designed to push light out in a very narrow cone and illuminate distant subjects. At the other end are "Mule" lights - literally just a bare LED at the end face of the light with absolutely no focusing. Most EDC/Tactical/Common flashlights are a bit of a hybrid, with reflectors engineered to produce both a narrow throwing beam (the "hot spot") as well as a wider area for illuminating around you ("spillover).

As I am sure you can imagine, the beam profile will have a profound effect on a light's utility for photography, especially on near subjects. You might want a narrow beam for the effect in a photograph, or you might want a mule light to add illumination scene wide. A narrow beam is easy; a mule light requires a LOT of power since it's energy is spread out in such a wide fashion.

Temperature and CRI:
With editing what it is now, I don't know that these are really critical factors unless you plan on some sort of zero editing (even the AP allows for color correction though). LED's all emit blue light (so very high in the temperature range) and the diodes are treated with a compound that filters that light to yellow. More of this filtering compound brings the color temperature down and color rendering index (CRI) up... but always at the expense of light output. If color temperature and CRI are important, you will be giving up power to get it. Having said that, color correction is easy with digital photography, so collecting the raw pixels may very well take priority and you can fix it in post.

Price wise, I would buy a few different low end lights to experiment and see what works for you. Fenix and 4Sevens are, I think, at the top of the quality pack when it comes to reasonably priced, high quality, well supported lights.

If you want to step up a bit in quality, SureFire, Elzetta and Malkoff Devices are making stuff that will blow the Chinese brands out of the water in reliability and quality, but also price. American flashlights are almost all focused on military/police use (since those are markets that spend money for quality); that means they will have high output with throw-focused beam profiles that have well engineered spillover. They are excellent, but it might not be the kind of light you want for photography.

At the very high end, custom makers can build you precisely what you want. Custom made throwers are easy to come by, custom made mules are also easy. If you want a hybrid beam deal though, the engineering to do proper reflectors is simply beyond the scope of most custom makers (there is a lot of simulation software involved, and very precise parabolic machining, finishing and often optics engineering involved). Having said that, I own one McGizmo Titanium Mule light with a daylight temp high CRI LED... and it's amazing.

Well, thank you very very much for this informative or detailed post.

So, i don't know how to make it more clear about what i look, but let's give you what i am thinking about to use it more in photography, i want to use it to light the foreground rocks either on the ground in front of me or even rocks of some mountains near me or hills, or some trees that in front of me or in the frame, so i think you know what i mean, sometimes even with long exposure i need to light some subjects in my frame in outdoor and landscapes, so maybe i mean highlight the subjects as you said?

About power i almost got it from searches of different torches, and i know about Lumens from Wiki, stating as Candela too, and definitely i will not go with less than 100LM, i saw many cheap on eBay with 500-3000LM, are those too much power or you think they are not good quality? the names sounds high quality [Ultrafine, Fenix, Cree, SureFire,..etc] so i don't think those are also Chinese or are those Chinese brands?

Talking about type of light beam, well, i really don't know what does that mean, but i feel it is about some kind of how it throw the light, i think you mean one is just straight normal light beam and the other is nearly similar to lazer point light that is not giving much of light beam ray around? Well, if i go with focused one then it will lit only the area around that light hitting it, so i need to keep moving around to cover more area, while with wider beam i can lit more areas without moving the torch around, but then that may show the light beam coming from somewhere in the frame which will look like as a flare or ghosting lights, so i can't decide which is better for me.


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gakoenig
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Jul 18, 2014 02:55 |  #9

Tareq wrote in post #17038996 (external link)
Well, thank you very very much for this informative or detailed post.

So, i don't know how to make it more clear about what i look, but let's give you what i am thinking about to use it more in photography, i want to use it to light the foreground rocks either on the ground in front of me or even rocks of some mountains near me or hills, or some trees that in front of me or in the frame, so i think you know what i mean, sometimes even with long exposure i need to light some subjects in my frame in outdoor and landscapes, so maybe i mean highlight the subjects as you said?

About power i almost got it from searches of different torches, and i know about Lumens from Wiki, stating as Candela too, and definitely i will not go with less than 100LM, i saw many cheap on eBay with 500-3000LM, are those too much power or you think they are not good quality? the names sounds high quality [Ultrafine, Fenix, Cree, SureFire,..etc] so i don't think those are also Chinese or are those Chinese brands?

Talking about type of light beam, well, i really don't know what does that mean, but i feel it is about some kind of how it throw the light, i think you mean one is just straight normal light beam and the other is nearly similar to lazer point light that is not giving much of light beam ray around? Well, if i go with focused one then it will lit only the area around that light hitting it, so i need to keep moving around to cover more area, while with wider beam i can lit more areas without moving the torch around, but then that may show the light beam coming from somewhere in the frame which will look like as a flare or ghosting lights, so i can't decide which is better for me.

Google "Flashlight Beam Profile" and you'll see what I'm talking about. Some flashlights have a very narrow, very powerful beam of light. Others have very wide "flood" light effect.

The real question is distance - if you are lighting a subject within 10', a narrow beam of light will be *very* narrow at those distances - just 12 inches wide. If you are using that same light to illuminate rocks 100 feet away though, it is the only way to focus all the lumens out there.

Really, you need to get a few lights and experiment. 500 lumens? 3000 lumens? Doesn't matter, buy as much light as you can afford. It's easy to cover the beam or bring the brightness down.

Once you get a few lights, read the reviews on Candle Power Forums (the big internet flashlight site). Users over there write OBSESSIVE reviews with runtime figures, independent lumen ratings and controlled beam profile pictures.

You can use that data to compare what you like/don't like about the light you buy, and make your next decision with some better education and data points behind you.

This is a long way of saying you need to go through some trial and error. This is not a common flashlight use and it isn't a big technique in current photography, so there is limited information to guide your decision here.

You're on the cutting edge, man! :D


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Tareq
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Jul 18, 2014 03:02 |  #10

gakoenig wrote in post #17039070 (external link)
Google "Flashlight Beam Profile" and you'll see what I'm talking about. Some flashlights have a very narrow, very powerful beam of light. Others have very wide "flood" light effect.

The real question is distance - if you are lighting a subject within 10', a narrow beam of light will be *very* narrow at those distances - just 12 inches wide. If you are using that same light to illuminate rocks 100 feet away though, it is the only way to focus all the lumens out there.

Really, you need to get a few lights and experiment. 500 lumens? 3000 lumens? Doesn't matter, buy as much light as you can afford. It's easy to cover the beam or bring the brightness down.

Once you get a few lights, read the reviews on Candle Power Forums (the big internet flashlight site). Users over there write OBSESSIVE reviews with runtime figures, independent lumen ratings and controlled beam profile pictures.

You can use that data to compare what you like/don't like about the light you buy, and make your next decision with some better education and data points behind you.

This is a long way of saying you need to go through some trial and error. This is not a common flashlight use and it isn't a big technique in current photography, so there is limited information to guide your decision here.

You're on the cutting edge, man! :D

Hmmmm, good points.

Actually, i am looking to buy one to take it with me when i fly, and i am flying to your part of the world or area, so maybe yo can bring some with you to test and i will buy the one that suits me, i may use it only for that travel when i am outdoor in dark night near mountains or some valleys, so maybe better i try them live or in real then i can decide, i can't buy them to and not sure which without trying it outdoor which i can't in my country, no long time enough to buy few to test, i think i better look at some photos where shooters were using those lights to lit subjects and see what kind they bought.

Are there renting for those flashlights over there? I will be in Washington and Oregon in my vacation, if everything goes well i hope, so maybe i will get an American good or high quality one time rather than trying some cheapo, but i don't have something to lose to try cheapo, i can give them to my kids to play with if i don't need or not suit me.


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Jul 18, 2014 03:08 |  #11

Fenix PD35.

I can not rate this torch highly enough.

Its small, light and powerful with good run time build quality and water resistance.

It uses 1x18650 cell which means you will need to invest in a one or two of these and a charger but the power out put and performance far surpasses AA batts.

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Tareq
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Jul 18, 2014 03:37 |  #12

Aus.Morgo wrote in post #17039090 (external link)
Fenix PD35.

I can not rate this torch highly enough.

Its small, light and powerful with good run time build quality and water resistance.

It uses 1x18650 cell which means you will need to invest in a one or two of these and a charger but the power out put and performance far surpasses AA batts.

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: http://s392.photobucke​t.com …7019_zps5f913ce​0.jpg.html  (external link)

Thank you very much!

I don't worry about the battery at all, i bought 2 for my HyperDrive ColorSpace storage device, and i am waiting the charger, i can buy more batteries if necessary but i think 2 is enough, i can use 1 for each that i bought separately.

Sounds this light is very similar to many lights i saw on eBay, i will look at this model you posted and see its specifications and compare with other models.


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Jul 18, 2014 03:41 |  #13

No worries happy to help :)


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Tareq
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Jul 18, 2014 03:49 |  #14

Aus.Morgo wrote in post #17039132 (external link)
No worries happy to help :)

:):)


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Jul 18, 2014 08:22 |  #15

Tareq wrote in post #17038996 (external link)
I want to use it to light the foreground rocks either on the ground in front of me or even rocks of some mountains near me or hills, or some trees that in front of me or in the frame.

The difference in light output between lighting a few foreground rocks and "some mountains" is huge! I'd suggest forgetting the mountains/hills and concentrating on foreground items only. Hills and mountains would require a light source the equal of the sun.


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