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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 25 Jul 2014 (Friday) 14:55
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Whats so special about mirrorless bodies?

 
gjl711
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Jul 29, 2014 23:09 |  #196

pwm2 wrote in post #17065121 (external link)
Define "kill a feature".

Few companies have "one feature" to do and then decide to do it or kill it.

So "create new product X" or "add new feature Y" requires a priority decision, where the amount of resources becomes important.

It's obvious no bright manager lets the R&D resources just sit and idle when there exists a list of potential tasks to do. But many R&D managers are likely to be in a situation where one of their top requests is to get more staff. And many project managers are wanting more staff assigned to their projects.

That's different. I can see shelving something to prioritize something else, that happens all the time. I can see killing a feature because it can't be done cost effectively or can't be marketed. But what the ML folks do is not controversial and would do nothing but add value to Canon cameras and at very little cost. Heck, they could just sub-contract the ML team in incorporate their stuff today at almost no cost.


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pwm2
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Jul 29, 2014 23:19 |  #197

Hogloff wrote in post #17065154 (external link)
So then you know it really has little to do with "management" and more to do with product development that determine the features / functions that go into a product.

There is so much ignorance about product development that goes around with fingers always pointing to management if a feature is not in a product...but in reality...that decision is most likely done at the product level with major inputs from engineering.

You have to read my initial post in relation to the post I did responded to, i.e.
"They alone are totally smokin' Canon engineers and this is with nothing but ingenuity. If I were a Canon engineer right now I would totally be hanging my head in shame."

It isn't an issue of skill but an issue of management decisions what to add and what to add to a product. You either agree, or you don't.

"product level" is management. Management isn't one set of 10 guys/gals at the top - the board of the directors - and the rest are engineers or salesmen or factory workers.

Management is including product owners, project managers, R&D team leaders etc.


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Glenn ­ NK
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Jul 29, 2014 23:29 |  #198

gjl711 wrote in post #17064702 (external link)
You're dredging up ancient history.

Yes, that's true, but it's still hurting them. The trouble with history is that to some extent it defines our future and our future courses of action.

I'm aware of several photogs on Naturescapes that switched to Nikon and never went back.


When did voluptuous become voluminous?

  
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jocau
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Jul 29, 2014 23:46 |  #199

kf095 wrote in post #17064425 (external link)
Never needed one back then, nor I need it know. My 500D with 35 F2 was a heck a lot more of the camera, even before x100 :cool: With same sensor size and lower price :)

Another dude above was saying something what he knew something I didn't knew. Like flash sync speed.
Let me parrot here for one more time:


http://learn.usa.canon​.com …_highspeedsync_​blog.shtml (external link)

Who is the tool now?

With HSS you lose a few stops of flash power (which means you have to place the flash much closer to the subject and that isn't always wanted or possible). It's hugely inferior to using higher sync speeds with a leaf shutter. Also you need specific cameras and flashes to use HSS. With the leaf shutter of the X100(S) you can use about any flash (as long as you can get it to sync one way or another) and get fast sync speeds. A leaf shutter (or something that allows for higher flash sync speeds with any flash) is one of my "dream features" and I hope Canon can give us this somewhere in the future.


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BigAl007
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Jul 30, 2014 07:18 |  #200

Given that Hasselblad could manage to incorporate the use of leaf shutter lenses in their MF SLR system, without the benefit of electronic control, I don't see any technical reason why Canon should not now be able to do it with a DSLR. The electronic controls would seem to offer an easier control solution. Especially now that some are replacing slow digital MF backs with DSLR's.

I'm sure there would be a market for an 85 and a 135 with leaf shutter from pros. Then you can have high shutter speeds with studio flash, instead of relying on using HSS as a work round.

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gjl711
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Jul 30, 2014 07:25 |  #201

Glenn NK wrote in post #17065191 (external link)
Yes, that's true, but it's still hurting them. The trouble with history is that to some extent it defines our future and our future courses of action...

That's true. Once a perception is set, it is almost impossible to change.


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JM ­ Photos
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Jul 30, 2014 13:07 |  #202

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #17057710 (external link)
My apologies, I am trying to figure out how to word this without sounding confrontational or insulting. Your reply to your own thread sounds like this went from a question to a rant. Your reply sounds like instead of curiosity, you've already judged and pigeonholed without gaining any info.

The fact that there are mirror less systems with far better sensors and image quality than Canon's flagship 1Dx at a small fraction of the size and cost should be an indicator that these systems are serious alternative.

They can't do everything better or as good as a DSLR (currently) but they do excel at some tasks with little to no sacrifice vs DSLR.

Again, sorry if I come out sounding strong. If in fact you are curious I hope some of the time taken by people to earnestly reply has helped you to learn a bit about the advantages mirror-less offers.

It was honest curiosity combined with some pre-formed opinions. Now that I have read through this I've read multiple informative posts...also a lot of gibberish bickering between certain members ;)


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WaltA
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Jul 30, 2014 13:13 |  #203

pwm2 wrote in post #17064978 (external link)
Without registering, it seems more like an SDK to be able to remote-control cameras, i.e. tethered use. And I have seen quite a number of programs that can remote-control a number of Canon cameras.

I've used the Canon SDK for years to build software. PM me if you have questions as to what you can or can't do with it.

I believe that ML doesn 't use the SDK. Its a hack using reverse engineering.

Added for clarity- The Canon SDK only allows you to write software for a Windows or MAC computer that connects to a Canon camera and controls it or downloads images. It doesn't let you write/edit the firmware that runs in the camera itself.


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nekrosoft13
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Jul 30, 2014 13:13 |  #204
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gjl711 wrote in post #17064416 (external link)
What do you mean nada... hurumph!! You call the release of the white Rebel nana!! Shows what you know.

;);):):)

that was quite an innovation, who needs new sensors....


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pwm2
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Jul 30, 2014 17:00 |  #205

WaltA wrote in post #17066287 (external link)
I've used the Canon SDK for years to build software. PM me if you have questions as to what you can or can't do with it.

I believe that ML doesn 't use the SDK. Its a hack using reverse engineering.

Added for clarity- The Canon SDK only allows you to write software for a Windows or MAC computer that connects to a Canon camera and controls it or downloads images. It doesn't let you write/edit the firmware that runs in the camera itself.

Doing it their own way means that ML is not affected by any NDA - Canon may say that they don't like ML code, but the ML developers hasn't violated any direct agreements with Canon. And depending on what countries the developers lives in, they may not have broken any regulations forbidding reverse engineering.

And the rules for reverse engineering varies a lot. So while it may be forbidden to use reverse engineering to steal an algorithm, the same country may allow it to implement fixes to problems in original software. A number of ML features can be seen as implementing fixes with a bit of stretching of the truth :p

Anyway - it sounds like my initial analysis was correct that the Canon SDK is intended for developing tethered solutions. How to remote-control the cameras, but not how to teach it new tricks.


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DC ­ Fan
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Jul 30, 2014 18:02 as a reply to  @ pwm2's post |  #206

Here's an interesting real-world observation. I just made a trip to EAA AirVenture, the largest air show and aviation event in the U.S., at Oshkosh, Wisconsin. The area is flooded with airplanes and people carrying cameras. A typical camera was a DSLR with a basic 18-55mm lens, a superzoom bridge camera, or a smart phone.

I saw only one mirrorless interchangable lens camera. Ironically, I also saw only one Red video camera and only one GoPro camera in use. (Nikon had an advertising banner on a platform and GoPro had a merchandising tent.) It's also interesting to note that I saw no one using any wide-angle prime lenses, but many people were using Tamron lenses which appeared to be superzoom models or wide-to-short telephoto models.




  
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DocFrankenstein
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Jul 30, 2014 23:04 |  #207

DC Fan wrote in post #17066788 (external link)
I saw only one mirrorless interchangable lens camera. Ironically, I also saw only one Red video camera and only one GoPro camera in use. (Nikon had an advertising banner on a platform and GoPro had a merchandising tent.) It's also interesting to note that I saw no one using any wide-angle prime lenses, but many people were using Tamron lenses which appeared to be superzoom models or wide-to-short telephoto models.

It takes time for the market to catch up.

Even sony's exmor is not that different from the early rebel for a lot of users. DSLRs have been around for more than a decade now, every non-photographer has one kicking around in the closet.


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stevewf1
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Aug 09, 2014 09:00 |  #208

Don't know much about these mirrorless cameras yet, but maybe they're worth a look...

A lot of times with family get-togethers, cookouts and the like, I'll just take my SX20 instead of all my dSLR stuff.


Steve

  
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