Help with ID

Southeastern Ohio would this be a house finch or purple finch or neither. The bill looks like a finch . Both of my field guides don't agree so I am lost. This is also heavy crop so it doesn't help either.

Thanks
Ron

House Finch. The curved culman, line of the bill's halves, is a good guide.

Thanks John, I was leaning toward house finch. My Petersen field guide wasn't much help. Sibley was better but still left some questions.

They definitely can be difficult even with the good guides.

This is a male house finch. The purple finch's coloring is more of a pink or raspberry "wash," and that wash continues over its body (back, sides, etc) rather than ending abruptly at the neck.

JanetS wrote in post #17062058
This is a male house finch. The purple finch's coloring is more of a pink or raspberry "wash," and that wash continues over its body (back, sides, etc) rather than ending abruptly at the neck.

Feather coloring is greatly effected by diet of the individual, that is why you can sometimes find yellow House or Purple Finches. Or in the less obvious cases, feather brightness variants during the same time of year (of mature adults). Finch feather pigment also varies between time of year and age of the plumage or the bird.
I have seen both Purple Finches and House Finches together with no color variation between the two species, vocal/physical characteristics made the ID. Feather coloration based on diet is found all over the bird kingdom, flamingos being the most obvious case.

2n10 mentioned the best visual characteristic to go off of. The House Finch will have a "Roman Nose", where as the Purple Finch will be triangular in shape. Of course, learning the calls is the best way to separate these two, since finches are frequent in-flight callers and physical characteristics are difficult to distinguish while in flight.

JanetS wrote in post #17062058
This is a male house finch. The purple finch's coloring is more of a pink or raspberry "wash," and that wash continues over its body (back, sides, etc) rather than ending abruptly at the neck.

Evan wrote in post #17062280
Feather coloring is greatly effected by diet of the individual, that is why you can sometimes find yellow House or Purple Finches. Or in the less obvious cases, feather brightness variants during the same time of year (of mature adults). Finch feather pigment also varies between time of year and age of the plumage or the bird.
I have seen both Purple Finches and House Finches together with no color variation between the two species, vocal/physical characteristics made the ID. Feather coloration based on diet is found all over the bird kingdom, flamingos being the most obvious case.

2n10 mentioned the best visual characteristic to go off of. The House Finch will have a "Roman Nose", where as the Purple Finch will be triangular in shape. Of course, learning the calls is the best way to separate these two, since finches are frequent in-flight callers and physical characteristics are difficult to distinguish while in flight.

Both Janet and Evan are correct but Evans remark of seeing both of those Finches with no color variation would be quite rare I would think and the exception far greater than the rule. For almost all cases the Purple Finch is vastly different. The Raspberry color Janet mentioned versus the red of the House finch is very easy to see. I go with the brown stripes on the House Finches chest and lower body as an easy to see difference. This one here sure does have a large amount of red much more than many but if you look low you can see the brown stripes of a male House Finch, IMHO.

Diet does play a role in whether a male house finch will be the traditional red or an orange or yellow variant. A quick google search will provide information on this occurrence. Below is a photo of an orange variant

Oldjackssparrows wrote in post #17062336
Both Janet and Evan are correct but Evans remark of seeing both of those Finches with no color variation would be quite rare I would think and the exception far greater than the rule. For almost all cases the Purple Finch is vastly different. The Raspberry color Janet mentioned versus the red of the House finch is very easy to see. I go with the brown stripes on the House Finches chest and lower body as an easy to see difference. This one here sure does have a large amount of red much more than many but if you look low you can see the brown stripes of a male House Finch, IMHO.

I wouldn't call it rare for Purple Finches and House Finches to have the same coloration, just uncommon. I do not deny that both of these Finch species have different coloring, but I think my point was missed so I'll try to clarify.

Feather coloration in the bird kingdom within a species is highly variable. Diet, age, sex, feather wear, and even the lighting situation all being factors in what a bird's feather color looks like. GISS (General Impression, Size and Shape) is a huge part in identifying birds. But feather color can be deceiving, often leading to a missed ID by an inexperienced birder. The point I was trying to make is that it is better to rely on the GISS of the bird, rather than it's color. When identifying a bird, I rank what I see in this order: Size, shape, call (if any), behavior, habitat, and finally color. To summarize, with these two species being so similar, color should be the last thing a birder should look at when separating these birds.

Evan wrote in post #17063162
I wouldn't call it rare for Purple Finches and House Finches to have the same coloration, just uncommon. I do not deny that both of these Finch species have different coloring, but I think my point was missed so I'll try to clarify.

Feather coloration in the bird kingdom within a species is highly variable. Diet, age, sex, feather wear, and even the lighting situation all being factors in what a bird's feather color looks like. GISS (General Impression, Size and Shape) is a huge part in identifying birds. But feather color can be deceiving, often leading to a missed ID by an inexperienced birder. The point I was trying to make is that it is better to rely on the GISS of the bird, rather than it's color. When identifying a bird, I rank what I see in this order: Size, shape, call (if any), behavior, habitat, and finally color. To summarize, with these two species being so similar, color should be the last thing a birder should look at when separating these birds.

Ugg, it doesn't matter what I say, you would likely find some reason to disagree. Having said that, far from being an expert, I would say it is rare that the two have the same colors, it is usually very easy to ID either one by the colors and markings of these relatively common birds.

Oldjackssparrows wrote in post #17063592
Ugg, it doesn't matter what I say, you would likely find some reason to disagree. Having said that, far from being an expert, I would say it is rare that the two have the same colors, it is usually very easy to ID either one by the colors and markings of these relatively common birds.

I was not trying to disagree with you, or argue, merely clarify what I thought I did a poor job of saying in my first post.