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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 28 Jul 2014 (Monday) 15:27
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Why Canon, when Nikon...

 
TMaG82
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Aug 23, 2014 06:38 |  #436

enginyr wrote in post #17108181 (external link)
We aren't saying problems don't occur. We are comparing Canon's problems with Nikon's.

Nikon comes out with new cameras instead of fixing the problem. D610

Nikon = Trying to make an excellent product but lacking in customer support (requiring you to sue them to accept responsibility: D600 & D610)
Canon = In it for the long haul and realize that customer support is vital.

Nikon comes out with a new body every few minutes. WHERE ARE THE LENSES???

While I'm sure there are a couple of lenses missing compared to Canon (TS, smaller affordable telephoto), the bulk of what's needed for the majority of users is there. There is also support via 3rd party for some fantastic glass, like the Sigma art line much like Canon.

You want to talk about dumping out new bodies and lack of glass? Speak to any Sony E-mount user, either APS-C in the NEX line or the FF FE mount. How many versions of the base NEX camera was there? And were up to 3 a7 bodies and a rumored 4th affordable sub $1k and a 5th NEX-7 like body with 5 native glass?


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HKGuns
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Aug 23, 2014 09:42 |  #437

A troll from Moscow.




  
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CRCchemist
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Aug 24, 2014 20:33 |  #438

TMaG82 wrote in post #17112836 (external link)
While I'm sure there are a couple of lenses missing compared to Canon (TS, smaller affordable telephoto), the bulk of what's needed for the majority of users is there. There is also support via 3rd party for some fantastic glass, like the Sigma art line much like Canon.

You want to talk about dumping out new bodies and lack of glass? Speak to any Sony E-mount user, either APS-C in the NEX line or the FF FE mount. How many versions of the base NEX camera was there? And were up to 3 a7 bodies and a rumored 4th affordable sub $1k and a 5th NEX-7 like body with 5 native glass?

Yeah, that's a good point. Why are there so many Alpha 7 bodies? I just heard there is now a Sony Alpha 7S in addition to the Alpha 7R and the regular Alpha 7.




  
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Mornnb
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Aug 28, 2014 18:07 |  #439

Recently picked up a Sony a7R. Took it out the other day for a test with my 5D Mark III. Had the Sony a7R on a Gorillapod and the 5D on a Manfrotto. This is a good real world comparison as it's a final product after post production. Sat on the harbour loudly playing M83's Claudia Lewis, watching the sun fall behind the city, a fun night.
Note, both were shot at f16 and 30 seconds.

5D Mark III + 24-70 II 2.8.

IMAGE: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3914/14855940759_1acbf24bfd_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/oCLz​BD  (external link) Cremorne Point 1 (external link) by mornnb (external link), on Flickr

Sony a7R + 35mm Zeiss

IMAGE: https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3910/15039612481_eda86bcddd_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/oUZW​Pt  (external link) Cremorne Point 2 (external link) by mornnb (external link), on Flickr

Not much of a difference right? These are both great cameras with excellent lenses.
However the devil is in the details, take a look at a 100% crop and the lower noise of the Sony sensor is quite apparent.

IMAGE: http://i.imgur.com/v6KP7ha.jpg

IMAGE: http://i.imgur.com/i6xelUd.jpg

Canon 5D Mark III - Leica M240
EF 16-35mm F/4 IS L - EF 14mm f/2.8 L II - - EF 17mm TS-E L - EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L II - EF 70-200mm IS II f/2.8 L - Sigma 35mm f/1.4 Art - Sigma 85mm f/1.4 EX
Voigtlander 15mm III - 28mm Elmarit-M ASPH - 35mm f/1.4 Summilux-M FLE - 50mm f/1.4 Summilux-M ASPH
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Mark0159
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Aug 28, 2014 22:53 |  #440

There should be no surprise that the Sony is going to pick up more detail. the fact that the sony A7r is a 36mpx and the canon 5Dmk3 is 24mp means by default that sony is going to get more details and have bigger file sizes. the more mp a camera the more data it can collect.


Mark
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Canon EOS 6D | Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 17-40mm f/4L USM, EF 50mm f/1.4 USM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM | Tamron SP 35mm F1.8 Di VC USD | Canon Speedlite 550EX -|- Film | Canon EOS 3 | Olympus OM2 | Zuiko 35mm f2

  
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VaDimZH
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Aug 29, 2014 02:51 |  #441

Mornnb wrote in post #17123415 (external link)
Recently picked up a Sony a7R. Took it out the other day for a test with my 5D Mark III. Had the Sony a7R on a Gorillapod and the 5D on a Manfrotto. This is a good real world comparison as it's a final product after post production. Sat on the harbour loudly playing M83's Claudia Lewis, watching the sun fall behind the city, a fun night.
Note, both were shot at f16 and 30 seconds.

5D Mark III + 24-70 II 2.8.

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/oCLz​BD  (external link) Cremorne Point 1 (external link) by mornnb (external link), on Flickr

Sony a7R + 35mm Zeiss

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/oUZW​Pt  (external link) Cremorne Point 2 (external link) by mornnb (external link), on Flickr

Not much of a difference right? These are both great cameras with excellent lenses.
However the devil is in the details, take a look at a 100% crop and the lower noise of the Sony sensor is quite apparent.

QUOTED IMAGE

QUOTED IMAGE

Honestly,IMHO I like the picture from Canon 5D Mark III more,it looks much better than Sony (for me)


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CRCchemist
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Aug 29, 2014 03:24 |  #442

Beard Man wrote in post #17123973 (external link)
Honestly,IMHO I like the picture from Canon 5D Mark III more,it looks much better than Sony (for me)

Yeah. They both look beautiful. It's kind of splitting hairs at that level. The Sony is in fact slightly better, but it is such a marginal difference, I have reached the point where I'm not really bothered about the low ISO noise that the Canons have. Even though I can appreciate how the Sony sensors are better, and it would be nice to have the best sensor, I can live with what I have and I'm still satisfied.

Thank you everyone for the discussions on this thread. I learned a lot and I have been convinced by everyone here that the Sony and Nikon sensors are superior. I did not know that before and I learned a lot about what canon still has to do to equal the performance that Sony and Nikon have achieved.




  
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BigAl007
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Aug 29, 2014 04:08 |  #443

Mornnb wrote in post #17123415 (external link)
Recently picked up a Sony a7R. Took it out the other day for a test with my 5D Mark III. Had the Sony a7R on a Gorillapod and the 5D on a Manfrotto. This is a good real world comparison as it's a final product after post production. Sat on the harbour loudly playing M83's Claudia Lewis, watching the sun fall behind the city, a fun night.
Note, both were shot at f16 and 30 seconds.

5D Mark III + 24-70 II 2.8.

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/oCLz​BD  (external link) Cremorne Point 1 (external link) by mornnb (external link), on Flickr

Sony a7R + 35mm Zeiss

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/oUZW​Pt  (external link) Cremorne Point 2 (external link) by mornnb (external link), on Flickr

Not much of a difference right? These are both great cameras with excellent lenses.
However the devil is in the details, take a look at a 100% crop and the lower noise of the Sony sensor is quite apparent.

QUOTED IMAGE

QUOTED IMAGE

I'm sorry but how can these BOTH be 100% crops? They both show the same area of the image, but one was taken using a 22Mpix sensor, while the other was taken using 36Mpix. For the images to both be 100% crops they would have to show different amounts of the recorded image. What you actually have are two equal OPTICAL enlargements. With the final magnification ratio dependent on the resolution of the output device.

Alan


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Glenn ­ NK
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Aug 29, 2014 10:52 |  #444

BigAl007 wrote in post #17124022 (external link)
I'm sorry but how can these BOTH be 100% crops? They both show the same area of the image, but one was taken using a 22Mpix sensor, while the other was taken using 36Mpix. For the images to both be 100% crops they would have to show different amounts of the recorded image. What you actually have are two equal OPTICAL enlargements. With the final magnification ratio dependent on the resolution of the output device.

Alan

Are you sure about this? I have a feeling that he did it correctly.

And there should be a difference in resolution as CRCchemist pointed out.

What I'd like to see (and we obviously can't do online) is see them both printed at say 24 inches wide and compare them.

Hogloff (on this forum) recently bought a Sony A7 because he does print very large, and wanted better resolution on his prints.

Glenn


When did voluptuous become voluminous?

  
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Charlie
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Aug 29, 2014 11:33 |  #445

Glenn NK wrote in post #17124555 (external link)
Are you sure about this? I have a feeling that he did it correctly.

And there should be a difference in resolution as CRCchemist pointed out.

What I'd like to see (and we obviously can't do online) is see them both printed at say 24 inches wide and compare them.

Hogloff (on this forum) recently bought a Sony A7 because he does print very large, and wanted better resolution on his prints.

Glenn

bigal is correct. 100% on the sony looks much more magnified than on a 20mp camera. For that reason, you have to either downsample or upsample to do those comparisons.

btw, 24 inches is not particularly big of a print, assuming the 24" is the long end. You'de probably need at least 36" to see the difference between an A7r and a 5D3.


Sony A7riii/A9 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - SY 24/2.8 - FE 28/2 - FE 35/2.8 - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8 - Tamron 17-28/2.8 - 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
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pwm2
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Aug 29, 2014 11:48 |  #446

A 36MP camera makes everything about 35% larger if viewing at 100%. Or have 35% more pixels/mm if printing to the same size.


5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
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Mr. ­ Clean
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Aug 29, 2014 14:24 |  #447

1D Mark III? How many customers did Canon loose while realizing their support was vital?

At any rate, nowadays, the cameras are so good across the board. Pixel-peeping has always, and will always get you nowhere. Focus on what's in front of the lens! Take your favorite pics you can think of. Is the camera in the frame? Is it part of the shot? Who cares if it was shot with a 1DX or D4S?

Man, and it took me years to realize that so I'm not faulting anyone. GAS is terrible, and the technology aspect of it all draws you in to comparing this crap. Try not to and just take good pictures.

enginyr wrote in post #17108181 (external link)
We aren't saying problems don't occur. We are comparing Canon's problems with Nikon's.

Nikon comes out with new cameras instead of fixing the problem. D610

Nikon = Trying to make an excellent product but lacking in customer support (requiring you to sue them to accept responsibility: D600 & D610)
Canon = In it for the long haul and realize that customer support is vital.

Nikon comes out with a new body every few minutes. WHERE ARE THE LENSES???


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jocau
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Aug 29, 2014 16:08 |  #448

Mornnb wrote in post #17123415 (external link)
Recently picked up a Sony a7R. Took it out the other day for a test with my 5D Mark III. Had the Sony a7R on a Gorillapod and the 5D on a Manfrotto. This is a good real world comparison as it's a final product after post production. Sat on the harbour loudly playing M83's Claudia Lewis, watching the sun fall behind the city, a fun night.
Note, both were shot at f16 and 30 seconds.

5D Mark III + 24-70 II 2.8.

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/oCLz​BD  (external link) Cremorne Point 1 (external link) by mornnb (external link), on Flickr

Sony a7R + 35mm Zeiss

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/oUZW​Pt  (external link) Cremorne Point 2 (external link) by mornnb (external link), on Flickr

Not much of a difference right? These are both great cameras with excellent lenses.
However the devil is in the details, take a look at a 100% crop and the lower noise of the Sony sensor is quite apparent.

QUOTED IMAGE

QUOTED IMAGE

Too bad you didn't add your 6D to the test. Would have loved to see how much better the 6D performed compared to the 5DIII.


550D | EF-S 18-55mm F/3.5-5.6 IS | EF 50mm F/1.8 II | EF 70-200mm F/4L IS | Speedlite 580EX II | LumoPro LP180 | Gitzo GT3541XLS | Arca-Swiss Monoball Z1 SP | ONA Bowery (black, non-leather) (external link)

  
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Gas ­ Hog
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Aug 29, 2014 19:42 |  #449

Mr. Clean wrote in post #17124972 (external link)
1D Mark III? How many customers did Canon loose while realizing their support was vital?

At any rate, nowadays, the cameras are so good across the board. Pixel-peeping has always, and will always get you nowhere. Focus on what's in front of the lens! Take your favorite pics you can think of. Is the camera in the frame? Is it part of the shot? Who cares if it was shot with a 1DX or D4S?

Man, and it took me years to realize that so I'm not faulting anyone. GAS is terrible, and the technology aspect of it all draws you in to comparing this crap. Try not to and just take good pictures.

So you come in here spouting common sense? :lol:
Its the same on the motorcycle boards every Sept-Oct when the new models drop..brutal
and I am in hip deep. :cry:
Gary


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Mornnb
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Aug 29, 2014 21:12 |  #450

BigAl007 wrote in post #17124022 (external link)
I'm sorry but how can these BOTH be 100% crops? They both show the same area of the image, but one was taken using a 22Mpix sensor, while the other was taken using 36Mpix. For the images to both be 100% crops they would have to show different amounts of the recorded image. What you actually have are two equal OPTICAL enlargements. With the final magnification ratio dependent on the resolution of the output device.

Alan

You are correct, I meant to do 100% but was in a rush and had the wrong export options set.
Here it actually is at 100%. If anything though it makes the 5D3 look even worse in comparison...

IMAGE: http://i.imgur.com/oR9LBjE.jpg

IMAGE: http://i.imgur.com/iC8zItF.jpg

Canon 5D Mark III - Leica M240
EF 16-35mm F/4 IS L - EF 14mm f/2.8 L II - - EF 17mm TS-E L - EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L II - EF 70-200mm IS II f/2.8 L - Sigma 35mm f/1.4 Art - Sigma 85mm f/1.4 EX
Voigtlander 15mm III - 28mm Elmarit-M ASPH - 35mm f/1.4 Summilux-M FLE - 50mm f/1.4 Summilux-M ASPH
500px (external link)

  
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