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Thread started 07 Aug 2014 (Thursday) 17:32
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My thoughts on the 7D mkII and Canon Rumors

 
andrikos
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Aug 08, 2014 11:58 |  #16

One more thing that makes me believe that the 7DII will be lighter than the 7D is Canon's continuous campaign for lighter and lighter gear while preserving functionality and quality. Canon is becoming a bit of a Lotus equivalent ("simplify and add lightness"). As a former lotus owner. I wholeheartedly approve! :)

Look for 7DII to come in a tiny bit smaller and a bt lighter than 7D while (purely conjecture) introducing a different shape/advanced technology battery. As battery tech is advancing at a rate of 6-8% per year, it's time for canon to move forward with battery technology...


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Aug 08, 2014 12:34 |  #17

"I believe that the new Canon models going forward will have the following:
0.18 micron process sensors with completely different "look" and increased ISO and DR performance at least to Sony's level or maybe even better."

Andrikos, That would make alot of people happy if it were true, what are your reasons for believing this.


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andrikos
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Aug 08, 2014 13:05 |  #18

We know that Canon already has a 180nm fab and the sensors of their smaller cameras are made in that fab.

It seems, pure speculation on my part, that making larger sensors was either impossible (ie catastrophic yields) or Canon was so profitable with the old fab that they didn't bother upgrading.

It seems that now there is enough space (2 years) between major camera releases (6D) that Canon can pretend that this was their plan all along.... :)


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kfreels
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Aug 08, 2014 13:26 |  #19

andrikos wrote in post #17084315 (external link)
We know that Canon already has a 180nm fab and the sensors of their smaller cameras are made in that fab.

It seems, pure speculation on my part, that making larger sensors was either impossible (ie catastrophic yields) or Canon was so profitable with the old fab that they didn't bother upgrading.

It seems that now there is enough space (2 years) between major camera releases (6D) that Canon can pretend that this was their plan all along.... :)

Well, as a business it would be foolish to move to a new process without getting all you can out of the current process. As we noted earlier, the challenge isn't just making a new sensor with a new process. It's making a new sensor with the new process that is good enough to justify the expense of retooling everything and making sure you can at least match all of the characteristics of your current sensor while bringing additional improvements. There's no telling how many sensors they've designed, experimented with, and discarded along the way. With your consumer grade stuff, the skin tones aren't nearly as important. But if you're going to put a new design sensor in a $6500 camera, you'd better get it right.


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Canon 7D and a bunch of other stuff

  
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jorkata
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Aug 08, 2014 23:00 |  #20

kfreels wrote in post #17082737 (external link)
... then we can just come back later and see if I'm right.

Heh. Let me play as well - and we'll see in September who's more right :mrgreen:.

I personally think that the days of expensive crop cameras are behind us.
But on the other hand, Canon's sensor tech is way overdue for an overhaul.
So, they might still announce a 7DII to serve as a test mule, basically, for technologies that will appear in future 1D and 5D models.

So, if a 7DII is announced at Photokina, here are its likely specs:

  • new 22mp 1.6x sensor (almost as good as FF)
  • next-generation AF system
  • 9fps, Digic6+
  • big 100%/1.15x viewfinder and no pop-up flash
  • $1799
These are based entirely on my ... ahem ... informed ... assumptions.

Sensor
If a 7DII is announced, it will have a sensor based on new tech. That part is certain.
ISO performance will be on the level of the 5DII (the 5DIII and 6D remaining a bit better).
But DR will be better than any Canon DSLR and we can expect high scores on DxO Mark.
The number of megapixels doesn't need to be high, as the 7DII is a sports body after all.
Besides, high resolution will be reserved for FF bodies going forward.
So, 22mp seems like the best guess.

Next-generation AF system

My prediction is that the 7DII will feature a next generation AF system, which will be smarter and more customizable than current AF systems.
This will be the primary technology that Canon will be testing before they put it in higher-end models.

Frame rate
They will go for a fast frame rate (likely 9fps), since it adds little extra cost to the body - and yet, it's a relatively big selling point.
Unlike the 7D, don't expect dual Digics; a single Digic6+ will do.

Viewfinder and flash
The 100%/1.15x viewfinder will be (almost) as big as a FF viewfinder.
Canon has a patent for such a viewfinder - and it was surely not designed for Rebels.
Also, the 7DII will now join the xD family with the lack of a pop-up flash.
This is a cost-cutting measure - and yet, the body will be perceived as more professional by many.

Price: $1799
Despite all the new tech, the 7DII will be a sub-$2000 model.
Let's agree to disagree with those who think otherwise.

So, there it is. These are my predictions. Let's see who will have the most correct guesses ;).



  
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kfreels
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Aug 08, 2014 23:15 |  #21

jorkata wrote in post #17085164 (external link)
Heh. Let me play as well - and we'll see in September who's more right :mrgreen:.

I personally think that the days of expensive crop cameras are behind us.
But on the other hand, Canon's sensor tech is way overdue for an overhaul.
So, they might still announce a 7DII to serve as a test mule, basically, for technologies that will later appear in future 1D and 5D models.

So, if a 7DII is announced at Photokina, here are its likely specs:
  • new 22mp 1.6x sensor (almost as good as FF)
  • next-generation AF system
  • 9fps, Digic6+
  • big 100%/1.15x viewfinder and no pop-up flash
  • $1799
These are based entirely on my ... ahem ... informed ... assumptions.

Sensor
If a 7DII is announced, it will have a sensor based on new tech. That part is certain.
ISO performance will be on the level of the 5DII (the 5DIII and 6D remaining a bit better).
But DR will be better than any Canon DSLR and we can expect high scores on DxO Mark.
The number of megapixels doesn't need to be high, as the 7DII is a sports body after all.
Besides, high resolution will be reserved for FF bodies going forward.
So, 22mp seems like the best guess.

Next-generation AF system

My prediction is that the 7DII will feature a next generation AF system, which will be smarter and more customizable than current AF systems.
This will be the primary technology that Canon will be testing before they put it in higher-end models.

Frame rate
They will go for a fast frame rate (likely 9fps), since it adds little extra cost to the body - and yet, it's a relatively big selling point.
Unlike the 7D, don't expect dual Digics; a single Digic6+ will do.

Viewfinder and flash
The 100%/1.15x viewfinder will be (almost) as big as a FF viewfinder.
Canon has a patent for such a viewfinder - and it was surely not designed for Rebels.
Also, the 7DII will now join the xD family with the lack of a pop-up flash.
This is a cost-cutting measure - and yet, the body will be considered more professional by many.

Price: $1799
Despite all the new tech, the 7DII will be a sub-$2000 model.
Let's agree to disagree with those who think otherwise.

So, there it is. These are my predictions. Let's see who will have the most correct guesses ;).

Awesome. This is a lot more fun than arguing about it. :cool:


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Canon 7D and a bunch of other stuff

  
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Gaarryy
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Aug 08, 2014 23:26 |  #22

Good Stuff I could see that happening as much as anything else. The only thing I hope is Dual digics and I honestly think the MSRP initial price will be $2200 and will sell well. With the 5dm3 MSRP at $3,399 and the 6D @ $1,900. even though they serve different needs, there is a slot price wise for something in the 2k to $2400 range. Only since so many companies are looking at a certain price range and modify products to be in that range. If the sensor is really good the whole "but it's a crop" will finally die out, and people will buy it.

jorkata wrote in post #17085164 (external link)
Heh. Let me play as well - and we'll see in September who's more right :mrgreen:.

I personally think that the days of expensive crop cameras are behind us.
But on the other hand, Canon's sensor tech is way overdue for an overhaul.
So, they might still announce a 7DII to serve as a test mule, basically, for technologies that will appear in future 1D and 5D models.

So, if a 7DII is announced at Photokina, here are its likely specs:
  • new 22mp 1.6x sensor (almost as good as FF)
  • next-generation AF system
  • 9fps, Digic6+
  • big 100%/1.15x viewfinder and no pop-up flash
  • $1799
These are based entirely on my ... ahem ... informed ... assumptions.

Sensor
If a 7DII is announced, it will have a sensor based on new tech. That part is certain.
ISO performance will be on the level of the 5DII (the 5DIII and 6D remaining a bit better).
But DR will be better than any Canon DSLR and we can expect high scores on DxO Mark.
The number of megapixels doesn't need to be high, as the 7DII is a sports body after all.
Besides, high resolution will be reserved for FF bodies going forward.
So, 22mp seems like the best guess.

Next-generation AF system

My prediction is that the 7DII will feature a next generation AF system, which will be smarter and more customizable than current AF systems.
This will be the primary technology that Canon will be testing before they put it in higher-end models.

Frame rate
They will go for a fast frame rate (likely 9fps), since it adds little extra cost to the body - and yet, it's a relatively big selling point.
Unlike the 7D, don't expect dual Digics; a single Digic6+ will do.

Viewfinder and flash
The 100%/1.15x viewfinder will be (almost) as big as a FF viewfinder.
Canon has a patent for such a viewfinder - and it was surely not designed for Rebels.
Also, the 7DII will now join the xD family with the lack of a pop-up flash.
This is a cost-cutting measure - and yet, the body will be perceived as more professional by many.

Price: $1799
Despite all the new tech, the 7DII will be a sub-$2000 model.
Let's agree to disagree with those who think otherwise.

So, there it is. These are my predictions. Let's see who will have the most correct guesses ;).


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Aug 10, 2014 00:03 |  #23

I love Jorkata's logic and the new 7D replacement would sell like hotcakes at a $1,799 roll out with these specs.




  
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kfreels
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Aug 10, 2014 01:45 |  #24

hairyjames wrote in post #17086837 (external link)
I love Jorkata's logic and the new 7D replacement would sell like hotcakes at a $1,799 roll out with these specs.

My only problem with this is that it sounds like an 80D or 90D. It doesn't sound like a pro-level APS-C. I agree, it would sell like hotcakes. And a new improved sensor in a 7D replacement would carry over later into the XXD and XXXD models as well. But a $2200 beast of an APS-C would sell like hotcakes as well. There's plenty of market for both if you have the sensor.


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Aug 10, 2014 08:04 |  #25
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OP, I admire your dedication to this posting. I think you are so far out in left field that we may never find you.

1D styling - no way.
Better ISO - minimal to marginal.
$2000 - not for what you spec'd - not even close.
10 fps - OK
24 mp - you are fighting your prediction for noise profile - no way you get both

If CR throws enough crap at the wall, eventually something will stick. Personally, I'd don't think there will be a 7DII. But I don't have a dog in this fight. I am a center-point shooter, happy with my 60D & 6D and some middle of the road glass.


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kfreels
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Aug 10, 2014 09:30 |  #26

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17087160 (external link)
OP, I admire your dedication to this posting. I think you are so far out in left field that we may never find you.

1D styling - no way.
Better ISO - minimal to marginal.
$2000 - not for what you spec'd - not even close.
10 fps - OK
24 mp - you are fighting your prediction for noise profile - no way you get both

If CR throws enough crap at the wall, eventually something will stick. Personally, I'd don't think there will be a 7DII. But I don't have a dog in this fight. I am a center-point shooter, happy with my 60D & 6D and some middle of the road glass.

We shall see. When it comes to CR, it's not like it's all been random crap thrown at the wall. Many things have been very consistent and the variations are usually close together. The NDA on a 7D replacement was posted as news and not as rumor so I have no doubt that one is coming soon. And that has been from multiple sources, not just CR. And there was another similar thing about the replacement being at the World Cup in Brazil - again from multiple sources.

As for there being no way to get more MP and a much better noise profile at the same time, that's true - using the same fab technology and overall design they've been using since the first DLSR they released. But they can't and won't stick with that forever. Their .18 process is already on use for other things. So such a sensor isn't magical or even pushing the limits of their capabilities. It's simply a decision they have to make to spend some money and with Sony out ahead now for a few years, I'm sure such a move has been in the works.

Just some things to think about. We shall see in about a month. :-)


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Aug 10, 2014 09:48 |  #27

I think even Nostrodamas referred to a possible 7Dmk2 in one of his quantrains. I too doubt there will ever be a 7Dmk2 as it seems the train has already left that station.


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Aug 10, 2014 10:39 |  #28

kfreels wrote in post #17087287 (external link)
We shall see. When it comes to CR, it's not like it's all been random crap thrown at the wall. Many things have been very consistent and the variations are usually close together. The NDA on a 7D replacement was posted as news and not as rumor so I have no doubt that one is coming soon. And that has been from multiple sources, not just CR. And there was another similar thing about the replacement being at the World Cup in Brazil - again from multiple sources.

As for there being no way to get more MP and a much better noise profile at the same time, that's true - using the same fab technology and overall design they've been using since the first DLSR they released. But they can't and won't stick with that forever. Their .18 process is already on use for other things. So such a sensor isn't magical or even pushing the limits of their capabilities. It's simply a decision they have to make to spend some money and with Sony out ahead now for a few years, I'm sure such a move has been in the works.

Just some things to think about. We shall see in about a month. :-)

No, it's no random crap. It's consistent crap.


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Aug 10, 2014 12:10 |  #29

howiewu wrote in post #17087382 (external link)
No, it's no random crap. It's consistent crap.

:lol:




  
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Aug 10, 2014 13:10 |  #30
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kfreels wrote in post #17087287 (external link)
We shall see. When it comes to CR, it's not like it's all been random crap thrown at the wall. Many things have been very consistent and the variations are usually close together.

True, but not my point. CR can make 100 educated guesses. Some of them will prove to be correct, with absolutely no fore-knowledge at all. A good guess does not constitute valid information.

The NDA on a 7D replacement was posted as news and not as rumor so I have no doubt that one is coming soon. It is not even possible to post an NDA as news. To do so would be to violate it. Believe it or not, that was a rumor, too. And that has been from multiple sources, not just CR. And there was another similar thing about the replacement being at the World Cup in Brazil - again from multiple sources.

As for there being no way to get more MP and a much better noise profile at the same time, that's true - using the same fab technology and overall design they've been using since the first DLSR they released. But they can't and won't stick with that forever. Their .18 process is already on use for other things. So such a sensor isn't magical or even pushing the limits of their capabilities. It's simply a decision they have to make to spend some money and with Sony out ahead now for a few years, I'm sure such a move has been in the works.

No doubt, technology will improve. What was the last new-tech Canon released on an apsc camera? The only one I can ever remember is DPAF on the 70D. The odds are with new-tech sensors being released on a 1Dn body first.

Just some things to think about. We shall see in about a month. :-)

I do agree that we shall see in about a month. And if no 7DII appears, the rumors will fly again about some other future date. It's not like this is the first rumored release of the 7DII. I hope I am wrong, and that Canon does release a 7DII, or some follow-up-high-end apsc camera. It would do two things: make a bunch of 7DII wanters very happy, and, re-affirm Canon's commitment to apsc. Some of that new-tech may even filter down to a 60DII, which would pique my interest. I'd like to see a better noise profile, 8 fps, a good implementation of auto-ISO (there is another thread, entirely!).


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