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FORUMS News & Rumors Camera Rumors and Predictions 
Thread started 07 Aug 2014 (Thursday) 17:32
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My thoughts on the 7D mkII and Canon Rumors

 
hollis_f
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Sep 13, 2014 04:40 |  #346

Geordie Amanda wrote in post #17150190 (external link)
Currently the 5DIII is about £2,300 here in the UK and I guess the 7DII will be around £1,500 at launch (give or take).

You forget that the retailers will do their normal 'fleece the early-adopters' routine, where all those must-have-new-shiny-toy-NOW! people with more money than sense (or who buy their cameras with somebody else's money) will pay anything to be the 'first on the block'.

My prediction is that the 7DII will launch in the UK at £1800 to £2000 and will stay at that price for a few months. It's possible that one of the retailers will blink early for the Xmas period - and that prices will do their normal plummet around then. But I reckon they'll be able to hold out until January. By Spring 2005 the 7DII will have dropped down to less than £1500.

This is standard practise for UK retailers. Check out the history on the 70D's price at CameraPriceBuster - HERE (external link). It's standard practise, but there will still be loads of bleaters complaining about 'rip-off Britain'. If you don't want to be ripped-off just wait a few months. Nobody is forcing you to buy the new camera now.


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bigrob
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Sep 13, 2014 04:50 |  #347

Phew Hollis do you really think it will be that much? I guess it could be as used 1DIVs are £1800-£1900.

I was thinking £1499.99 at launch but I could be spectacularly wrong. I suppose normal early adopter rules apply.

I will be interested at £1200-£1300 if it has good high ISO.


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steve75
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Sep 13, 2014 04:56 |  #348

The launch price of the original 7d in '09 was £1699....... I think you are going to be very disappointed. I can only envisage it being nearer £2000 but i hope you are right and i am wrong.


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steve75
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Sep 13, 2014 04:58 |  #349

And i seem to remember that although there were some retailers that were selling for less, the og 7d held its price pretty well for a very long time.


Current gear: EOS 7D w/ BG-E7
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talbot_sunbeam
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Sep 13, 2014 06:42 |  #350

steve75 wrote in post #17151507 (external link)
The launch price of the original 7d in '09 was £1699.......

Yep, I expect the 7DII to be around £1700 at launch, and stay at this price for 6 months or so, before coming down a bit and settling at around £1500. Towards the end of it's run it would move toward the £1000 mark.

Basically mirroring what the 7D did in it's lifecycle.

Anyone who thinks it's going to launch at £1200 is engaging in hyper-wishful-thinking...



7D, 450D | 17-55, 10-22, 55-250, 50 1.8, 580EXII | YN568II | YN622 x3 | Magic Lantern | (Still) Jonesing for a 70-200 2.8...
Turns out a gripped 7D + 622 + 580exII + 70-200 2.8 IS MK2 is BLOODY HEAVY! Who knew?!!

  
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butterfly2937
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Sep 13, 2014 07:14 as a reply to  @ hollis_f's post |  #351

Well on this site they list the sensor as new so maybe there is still hope:
http://thenewcamera.co​m …ull-specification-leaked/ (external link)

"This will feature newly developed CMOS sensor and advance Dual-Pixel AF based CMOS sensor, the ISO range is limited to ISO 16000 only (however we don’t know yet its a standard of expandable mode)"


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Keith ­ R
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Sep 13, 2014 07:36 |  #352

Yeah - but the rumours also say that it will come with "Dust and water"...




  
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Keith ­ R
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Sep 13, 2014 07:47 |  #353

FEChariot wrote in post #17150335 (external link)
I assure you it will not be as big of an improvement as many here are expecting.

Sigh... Everyone's an expert.

I own and use both the 7D and the 70D: every single time I use it I am impressed all over again by how much better the 70D's output is than the 7D's (and I have no problem with high ISO or DR issues with the 7D): the simple fact is that the 70D's sensor is much better.

It resolves detail better, it's significantly cleaner across the ISO range (right up into five-figure ISOs), it has a heap more DR and no observable pattern noise in pushed shadows, and is just unequivocally superior, all round, to the one in the 7D.

Now, I know that speaking from a position of actual first-hand experience is frowned upon on here in favour of randomly mis-quoting some meme or other from the internet that happens to chime with whatever bias or agenda a poster is pushing, but - sorry, and all - anyone who suggests that a 70D-derivative sensor in the 7D Mk II would be a bad thing, doesn't know what he or she is talking about.




  
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Shadowblade
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Sep 13, 2014 08:49 |  #354

Keith R wrote in post #17151666 (external link)
Sigh... Everyone's an expert.

I own and use both the 7D and the 70D: every single time I use it I am impressed all over again by how much better the 70D's output is than the 7D's (and I have no problem with high ISO or DR issues with the 7D): the simple fact is that the 70D's sensor is much better.

It resolves detail better, it's significantly cleaner across the ISO range (right up into five-figure ISOs), it has a heap more DR and no observable pattern noise in pushed shadows, and is just unequivocally superior, all round, to the one in the 7D.

Agree with all that except for DR. The 7D and 70D have almost identical DR - they'll blow the highlights and shadows at around the same time as each other. What the 70D has is much more usable DR, due to its much more subtle pattern noise (faint horizontal bands instead of tartan).

The thing is, even though the 70D has a much better sensor than the 7D, it's still way behind every other manufacturer's APS-C sensors. Canon doesn't exist in a vacuum. The newer 70D sensor may beat the older 7D sensor, but it still lags way behind its contemporaries.

To use a car analogy, if Canon's old sensor could do 70kph and the newer model can do 110kph, then the newer sensor is much better. But, in comparison, everyone else's sensor can do 250kph. The new Canon might be better than the old Canon, but it's still way behind everyone else. That might not matter if you only need to go at 100kph, i.e. shoot subjects that don't demand much of a sensor. But if you shoot more demanding subjects, i.e. need to go at 250kph on an autobahn, even Canon's 'better' sensor doesn't cut it.




  
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monkey44
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Sep 13, 2014 09:08 |  #355

From a guy who began his career years ago, film and slides, every time I shot with a D30 and then 30D over years of work, it put a grin on my face.

Today, having migrated to 5DM3 and 7D, that grin grows even larger. These cameras are amazing, doesn't matter the maker.

So, when I see the kind of ranting and grumbling (particularly on the CR forums) it simply blows me away. Nit-pickers will always find a way to rant and find some one thing Nikon or Sony or others do different, possibly better (screams about the 'weak' Canon sensor, for example). Well, the current technology certainly creates images I can blow up to life-size or more ... so I don't complain.

But no single component creates the image, it's always a combination of how those components interact, the skill of the photographer, the ability to understand the limits of the camera itself and the creativity of the one who pushes the button (even if it's a monkey), light, shadow, timing, movement, and no one thing ever impacts an image all by itself.

That bottom line is we buy and use what we can afford, what the manufacturer offers us as choices, and we choose our images based on what we can capture with what we have. Canon developed a system of components that interact well and compliment one another - doesn't matter much if ONE is slightly weaker than in some other camera, as long as the combination works.

I've shot Canon throughout my career, and won't change simply because ONE manufacturer brings ONE new component to the table (unless it completely blows everything and everyone out of the water - and prices it similar to the gear it replaces) ...

A camera is more "who does it" than 'what does it', and whatever Canon brings to the show this time will improve an already great instrument. But whatever it brings, it is what it is, until the next generation arrives, and we'll upgrade, or not, depending on a lot of factors we don't know at the moment. When it arrives, we'll know all about it, until then, most of it's just fantasy.




  
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kfreels
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Sep 13, 2014 09:15 |  #356

monkey44 wrote in post #17151770 (external link)
From a guy who began his career years ago, film and slides, every time I shot with a D30 and then 30D over years of work, it put a grin on my face.

Today, having migrated to 5DM3 and 7D, that grin grows even larger. These cameras are amazing, doesn't matter the maker.

So, when I see the kind of ranting and grumbling (particularly on the CR forums) it simply blows me away. Nit-pickers will always find a way to rant and find some one thing Nikon or Sony or others do different, possibly better (screams about the 'weak' Canon sensor, for example). Well, the current technology certainly creates images I can blow up to life-size or more ... so I don't complain.

But no single component creates the image, it's always a combination of how those components interact, the skill of the photographer, the ability to understand the limits of the camera itself and the creativity of the one who pushes the button (even if it's a monkey), light, shadow, timing, movement, and no one thing ever impacts an image all by itself.

That bottom line is we buy and use what we can afford, what the manufacturer offers us as choices, and we choose our images based on what we can capture with what we have. Canon developed a system of components that interact well and compliment one another - doesn't matter much if ONE is slightly weaker than in some other camera, as long as the combination works.

I've shot Canon throughout my career, and won't change simply because ONE manufacturer brings ONE new component to the table (unless it completely blows everything and everyone out of the water - and prices it similar to the gear it replaces) ...

A camera is more "who does it" than 'what does it', and whatever Canon brings to the show this time will improve an already great instrument. But whatever it brings, it is what it is, until the next generation arrives, and we'll upgrade, or not, depending on a lot of factors we don't know at the moment. When it arrives, we'll know all about it, until then, most of it's just fantasy.

Oh, just stop making sense already. We don't need that around here!


I am serious....and don't call me Shirley.
Canon 7D and a bunch of other stuff

  
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kfreels
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Sep 13, 2014 09:17 |  #357

Shadowblade wrote in post #17151751 (external link)
Agree with all that except for DR. The 7D and 70D have almost identical DR - they'll blow the highlights and shadows at around the same time as each other. What the 70D has is much more usable DR, due to its much more subtle pattern noise (faint horizontal bands instead of tartan).

The thing is, even though the 70D has a much better sensor than the 7D, it's still way behind every other manufacturer's APS-C sensors. Canon doesn't exist in a vacuum. The newer 70D sensor may beat the older 7D sensor, but it still lags way behind its contemporaries.

To use a car analogy, if Canon's old sensor could do 70kph and the newer model can do 110kph, then the newer sensor is much better. But, in comparison, everyone else's sensor can do 250kph. The new Canon might be better than the old Canon, but it's still way behind everyone else. That might not matter if you only need to go at 100kph, i.e. shoot subjects that don't demand much of a sensor. But if you shoot more demanding subjects, i.e. need to go at 250kph on an autobahn, even Canon's 'better' sensor doesn't cut it.

or more like if the older canon can do 11 mph and the later canon can do 11.5 mph but the other car can do 13 mph. I mean really, does the exmor have more than twice the DR? That's what your comparison is trying to say.


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Canon 7D and a bunch of other stuff

  
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dtufino
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Sep 13, 2014 09:24 |  #358

Sorry but the specs posted on the 7d MKII are not worth the price asking... these are already offered in the 70D... unfortunately Canon Fan boys will swear by it... i was a canon fan boy years ago, until i realized Canon releases the same exact camera every year with a different name, nothing new, nothing innovative.... I'm a canon guy, with about 8 Canon L lenses.... I'll be selling and going FULL mirror less very soon if canon doesn't step their game up!


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Shadowblade
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Sep 13, 2014 09:37 |  #359

kfreels wrote in post #17151782 (external link)
or more like if the older canon can do 11 mph and the later canon can do 11.5 mph but the other car can do 13 mph. I mean really, does the exmor have more than twice the DR? That's what your comparison is trying to say.

Yes.

2 stops extra = 4 times the dynamic range.




  
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kfreels
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Sep 13, 2014 09:55 |  #360

Shadowblade wrote in post #17151816 (external link)
Yes.

2 stops extra = 4 times the dynamic range.

Okie dokie then. Whatever you say.


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Canon 7D and a bunch of other stuff

  
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