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FORUMS News & Rumors Camera Rumors and Predictions 
Thread started 07 Aug 2014 (Thursday) 17:32
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My thoughts on the 7D mkII and Canon Rumors

 
rjharris
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Aug 10, 2014 14:59 |  #31

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17087597 (external link)
I do agree that we shall see in about a month. And if no 7DII appears, the rumors will fly again about some other future date. It's not like this is the first rumored release of the 7DII. I hope I am wrong, and that Canon does release a 7DII, or some follow-up-high-end apsc camera. It would do two things: make a bunch of 7DII wanters very happy, and, re-affirm Canon's commitment to apsc. Some of that new-tech may even filter down to a 60DII, which would pique my interest. I'd like to see a better noise profile, 8 fps, a good implementation of auto-ISO (there is another thread, entirely!).

I CAN pretty much guarantee that you won't see a new 60DII considering Canon has the 70d out now. Might see an 80D though!!




  
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GeoKras1989
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Aug 10, 2014 15:18 |  #32
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rjharris wrote in post #17087735 (external link)
I CAN pretty much guarantee that you won't see a new 60DII considering Canon has the 70d out now. Might see an 80D though!!

You are almost certainly correct. 8+ fps & and a good implementation of auto-ISO and I would have gotten a 70D. I want an auto-ISO that can be set to account for the focal length of the attached lens. And I want it to be user-selectable to some multiples of focal length (1/FL, 2/FL?). Say I have a 35mm IS on, default minimum shutter should be 1/60 to 1/100. I change to a 200, it should automatically default to 1/200 - 1/400. Right now (on 6D), I set it to 1/30 with my 35, then mount a 200, the stupid camera stays a 1/30. I'd like to meet the rocket scientist who thought THAT was a good idea?

Rant complete. Please return to wishful thinking about the 7DII.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Aug 10, 2014 20:05 |  #33

It's been a few days, any news?


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Aug 10, 2014 21:45 |  #34

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #17088171 (external link)
It's been a few days, any news?

a few days since news? rumors, or another thread. Which I gladly join. :)


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Aug 11, 2014 06:10 |  #35

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #17088171 (external link)
It's been a few days, any news?

The news on the street now is that rumors are slow in coming.


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GeoKras1989
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Aug 11, 2014 06:57 |  #36
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howiewu wrote in post #17088760 (external link)
The news on the street now is that rumors are slow in coming.

Is that real news, or another rumor?


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kfreels
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Aug 11, 2014 09:40 |  #37

I guess I need to point out the difference from a "rumor" at CR and a person making guesses. CR doesn't just sit around and make guesses. They have contacts with people inside Canon who may not be directly involved with a particular camera, but who come into regular contact with those who do. And such people in the workplace tend to talk about things they're doing on occasion. When that happens, they pass it on to CR and it becomes a "rumor". CR rates those rumors based on the source's previous history of accuracy.

So a CR1 is a rumor from an unfamiliar source or a source without a proven track record of being accuracy. A CR2 is coming from a person who has access to such information and also has a track history of getting it right.

Random speculation isn't given a CR value at all. So for example, today there are two posts. Once is about a possible 35+MP camera at Photokina. The other is that the 7DII won't have wifi. The first has no CR value at all. The post states clearly that a source for someone else reported this information. They don't know the source, it wasn't directly given to them by the source, so it wasn't assigned a CR value. The second is a CR2. This "good source" also stated it would have Eos-1 build quality. Then the author states that their opinion is that this may mean that it's a large MP camera.

There is a considerable difference between a source and an opinion. Does this mean the source is always right? No. But the quality of the source matters. Reading some of the comments I have flashbacks of debates about scientific topics with people who throw the word "theory" around as if it is the same thing as conjecture or guessing.

Everything I came to a conclusion on was based on a mixture of actual rumors and my own guesswork. But let me sort those out here:

7D replacement exists - multiple CR2 source confirmations
7D replacement is an even nicer build quality and more 1D like - multiple CR2 source confirmations
7DII announcement in the next month - multiple CRII source confirmations
24MP improved sensor - multiple CRII source confirmations
10 fps - guess work and a couple CR1s and CR2s that conflict between 9 and 12 fps
gps - CR1
wifi - CR1 with conflicting CR2 stating it won't be there and my guess that it's a little late to not have wifi
integrated grip - OLD CR2 and CR1 which may have changed over time along with my guesswork with the CR2 mention of a new battery
radio control of flash - pure guesswork
dual card slots - CR1 and CR2 - different sources
7DII name - up in the air

As with anything, the more specific you get, the less accurate you are. But a couple things which have multiple CR2 values from multiple sources all say that a replacement is imminent and that it will have a more 1D like build quality, more MP, and better noise and ISO.


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Aug 11, 2014 10:04 |  #38

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17087160 (external link)
OP, I admire your dedication to this posting. I think you are so far out in left field that we may never find you.

1D styling - no way.
Better ISO - minimal to marginal.
$2000 - not for what you spec'd - not even close.
10 fps - OK
24 mp - you are fighting your prediction for noise profile - no way you get both

I also think more along these lines.

Good ISO to 8K
9fps (10fps would be great and a psychological figure)
1 card slot
5D3 focusing
24mp

What I would really like as a sports shooter would be in-built LAN, and maybe just maybe it will have it, as the latest rumour today, says no WiFi. WiFi via EOSUtility is pathetic. Give me proper LAN and FTP as per the 1Dx of 1D4 via the WFT-E2.

I would also prefer dropping the Mp if it improve the noise considerably.

A smaller integrated grip to give 10fps would also be great but I doubt it.

So if the rumours are true we only have another 4 weeks to wait and see.


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GeoKras1989
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Aug 11, 2014 10:18 |  #39
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kfreels wrote in post #17089006 (external link)
I guess I need to point out the difference from a "rumor" at CR and a person making guesses. CR doesn't just sit around and make guesses. They have contacts with people inside Canon who may not be directly involved with a particular camera, but who come into regular contact with those who do. And such people in the workplace tend to talk about things they're doing on occasion. When that happens, they pass it on to CR and it becomes a "rumor". CR rates those rumors based on the source's previous history of accuracy.

So a CR1 is a rumor from an unfamiliar source or a source without a proven track record of being accuracy. A CR2 is coming from a person who has access to such information and also has a track history of getting it right.

Random speculation isn't given a CR value at all. So for example, today there are two posts. Once is about a possible 35+MP camera at Photokina. The other is that the 7DII won't have wifi. The first has no CR value at all. The post states clearly that a source for someone else reported this information. They don't know the source, it wasn't directly given to them by the source, so it wasn't assigned a CR value. The second is a CR2. This "good source" also stated it would have Eos-1 build quality. Then the author states that their opinion is that this may mean that it's a large MP camera.

There is a considerable difference between a source and an opinion. Does this mean the source is always right? No. But the quality of the source matters. Reading some of the comments I have flashbacks of debates about scientific topics with people who throw the word "theory" around as if it is the same thing as conjecture or guessing.

Everything I came to a conclusion on was based on a mixture of actual rumors and my own guesswork. But let me sort those out here:

7D replacement exists - multiple CR2 source confirmations
7D replacement is an even nicer build quality and more 1D like - multiple CR2 source confirmations
7DII announcement in the next month - multiple CRII source confirmations
24MP improved sensor - multiple CRII source confirmations
(I'd like to see that. But it would require new technology to up the pixel count and improve the noise profile. If they do it on the 7DII, it will spread. Good news.)

10 fps - guess work and a couple CR1s and CR2s that conflict between 9 and 12 fps
gps - CR1
(A no-brainer with the advances in chip and processing technology since the 7D was introduced. More good news.)
wifi - CR1 with conflicting CR2 stating it won't be there and my guess that it's a little late to not have wifi
(Agreed. What is the sense of NOT including popular OTS technology.)

integrated grip - OLD CR2 and CR1 which may have changed over time along with my guesswork with the CR2 mention of a new battery
(No way. Just my opinion.)

radio control of flash - pure guesswork
(I think at this point, Canon should stick with both forms of control. I am assuming you meant radio ONLY.)

dual card slots - CR1 and CR2 - different sources (Required on a top-flight body.)
7DII name - up in the air (If it ain't a 7DII, it ain't a 7DII. If Canon actually produces the camera you define, it won't be a 7DII. 2Dx?)

As with anything, the more specific you get, the less accurate you are. But a couple things which have multiple CR2 values from multiple sources all say that a replacement is imminent and that it will have a more 1D like build quality, more MP, and better noise and ISO.

Well, it is refreshing to see the accuracy and honesty of the two phrases I highlighted in your post. Most people understand neither of those points.

As far as CR goes, we will have to agree to disagree. The converse of your statement about specificity and accuracy is that if you are vague enough, you are always correct. I put Nostradamus and Canon Rumors in the same camp here. Some people can find truth and meaning in places where the driving force is chance and coincidence.

I address your 7DII specific predictions in line.


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kfreels
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Aug 11, 2014 11:09 |  #40

GeoKras1989 wrote in post #17089073 (external link)
As far as CR goes, we will have to agree to disagree. The converse of your statement about specificity and accuracy is that if you are vague enough, you are always correct. I put Nostradamus and Canon Rumors in the same camp here. Some people can find truth and meaning in places where the driving force is chance and coincidence.

The post was probably not specifically in response to you. What I was getting at is that a CR2 that says a 7D replacement is going to be announced on or around September 5 is pretty specific. If such an announcement were made on August 30 or Sept 20, then that rumor could be looked at as "wrong". But at the same time we don't know if that was a plan that ws indeed accurate and then changed internally for some reason. And it's still accurate when compared to a person stating that the 7DII isn't coming at all and that Canon is done with APS-C.

And that goes for many of the features. If the rumor is a 2 stop improvement in noise and it comes out at 1.75 stops then that doesn't make the naysayers who say that Canon can't make a significant reduction in noise right. And if it is 22MP and lower noise, it doesn't make the people who think that you can't increase MP and reduce noise right either.

And that's more about what I"m referring to. These aren't just guesses made by CR staff. When the 5D 2 came out and they posted a CR2 that an announcement would be made on March 2 and that the camera would be available shortly thereafter, it wasn't a guess that just happened to be right. It was a source inside Canon that leaked it to them and it was right on the money. It wasn't vague, it was specific. Putting such things in the same category as Nostradamus quatrains is about as foolish as putting intel from spies into the same category as a psychic. They aren't the same. Yet as we've seen, the spies sometimes get it wrong anyways.


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Aug 11, 2014 11:13 |  #41

Latest rumor, enjoy! May the discussion get hotter!!!

http://www.canonrumors​.com …-7d-replacement-info-cr2/ (external link)


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Aug 11, 2014 11:20 |  #42
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kfreels,

You see data. I don't. My guess is that lots of folks agree with each of us. I hope you are correct. Your prediction would indeed be a revolutionary camera.


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Aug 11, 2014 13:43 |  #43

2n10 wrote in post #17089175 (external link)
Latest rumor, enjoy! May the discussion get hotter!!!

http://www.canonrumors​.com …-7d-replacement-info-cr2/ (external link)

My BS detector went straight to 11 while reading this.

Those rumor 'sources' can't make up their minds about what the 7DII is supposed to be.
High-resolution and high-speed at the same time - but don't forget great ISO,
1-seried body, and whatnot.

One camera to rule them all, basically.

I think somebody is pulling CanonRumors' proverbial leg.




  
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Aug 11, 2014 16:39 |  #44

jorkata wrote in post #17089503 (external link)
My BS detector went straight to 11 while reading this.

Those rumor 'sources' can't make up their minds about what the 7DII is supposed to be.
High-resolution and high-speed at the same time - but don't forget great ISO,
1-seried body, and whatnot.

One camera to rule them all, basically.

I think somebody is pulling CanonRumors' proverbial leg.

I am having a difficult time coming to terms with the idea of making a 7DMkII with a 1D caliber body at the $2000 price point. It's an interesting concept, but if you are improving everything (including the body, pixel count, FPS, ISO, the sensor, duel pixel AF, 4k video?? and other various features etc.. ), one would have to think that a camera like this would cost well north of $2000.

I hope Canon proves me wrong.


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Aug 11, 2014 17:00 |  #45

I notice the date is still moving further down the road...


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