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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 15 Aug 2014 (Friday) 15:40
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Adorama Rovelight RL 600, thoughts?

 
PhilF
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Oct 31, 2015 18:22 |  #1006

OceanRipple* wrote in post #17766987 (external link)
Hi, The S1, Indra 500 & B1 shouldn't have this Gradient issue at all. They are all supposed to have the pulsing output (like Canon's 'HSS') - which keeps the flash output virtually constant for the full duration of the focal plane shutter's slit travel time.

Good to know.. .I might invest in one of them for next year's season.

Another question....... does the YN600RT speedlight have the same HSS as the Canon speedlight ?


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OceanRipple*
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Oct 31, 2015 18:39 as a reply to  @ PhilF's post |  #1007

" .. does the YN600RT speedlight have the same HSS as the Canon speedlight ? .. "

Hi, I have not tested that particular Speedlite, but yes, all the Speedlites I've tested that claim to have 'HSS' do the 40-50 KHz pulsing thing.

Like: 580ExII; (which incidentally shows that the burst of pulses is sustained for somewhat longer than it needs to be - another contribution to chewing through your Eneloops when using HSS).


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MalVeauX
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Post edited over 4 years ago by MalVeauX.
     
Nov 02, 2015 15:50 |  #1008

OceanRipple* wrote in post #17766602 (external link)
The reason I asked is, if my understanding is correct, specifically with portrait orientation shots, dependent on key light placement, one rotation will lessen the apparent gradient while the opposite rotation will accentuate it!

Given Canon's shutter orientation (shutter slit moves down relative to the sensor, ie moves up relative to the (landscape) image as normally viewed .. ), then the "rule" would be; if the key light is camera Left, then rotate with shutter button up, whereas if the key light is camera Right, then rotate with shutter button down. The gradient doesn't disappear, but to break the "rule" should make the gradient more apparent. Or at least, that's my current thinking.

Heya,

Tested it today with wide angle on full frame. HSS in rapidly changing light so it was hard to dial in exposure perfectly each time since I was on my own (hence the rotten comps, etc). But the test is to see if there's easily discernible gradients here. I tested with shutter button left and right (up or down), however you want to describe it. I think without bright white things in the foreground (like clothing or that chair I used), it's a lot harder to really notice it in any appreciable. Noting specifically clouds on edges of each photograph. If the gradient was super pronounced it would show up there relative to the orientation of the shutter.

These were not really edited beyond a crop and straightening, so there's tons of little nasties in there as I didn't clean up or spend time on it. Just wanted to see the gradient.

Light source is 48" EZpro octa with inner lining & outer panel, camera right each time.
Rovelight in HSS, shooting mostly at 1/2 and 1/1 power. I used a 3 stop ND filter on some of them just to test out using both together.
The images with the ND filter should be easy to spot, they have lower shutter speeds (1/1000s). Anything faster than that didn't have the ND and was naked.
Used 35mm on full frame so that the gradient should be apparent if it is. I find on telephoto it doesn't show up hardly at all if any.

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IMAGE: https://farm1.staticflickr.com/582/22535726710_1c3c8d3ec9_z.jpg
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/Akpu​qf  (external link) IMG_5792 (external link) by Martin Wise (external link), on Flickr

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IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/zEZd​8W  (external link) IMG_5791 (external link) by Martin Wise (external link), on Flickr

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IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/AkqV​Hh  (external link) IMG_5778 (external link) by Martin Wise (external link), on Flickr

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Very best,

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OceanRipple*
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Nov 02, 2015 17:17 as a reply to  @ MalVeauX's post |  #1009

Hi, And Tx for testing 'in the wild'.

See my egg shell lacquered wall frames (currently post #4, p63) here:
https://photography-on-the.net …ead.php?t=13933​90&page=63

The gradient would not affect background items, ambient lit surfaces or clouds at all. For it to be obvious, the key light lit subject would have to nearly fill the frame etc.

Your images imply that the gradient need not be a deal breaker. I was interested to see Flowrider's recent (very pretty) image - I would guess he had shutter button/grip up.




  
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MalVeauX
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Nov 02, 2015 17:52 |  #1010

OceanRipple* wrote in post #17769832 (external link)
Hi, And Tx for testing 'in the wild'.

See my egg shell lacquered wall frames (currently post #4, p63) here:
https://photography-on-the.net …ead.php?t=13933​90&page=63

The gradient would not affect background items, ambient lit surfaces or clouds at all. For it to be obvious, the key light lit subject would have to nearly fill the frame etc.

Your images imply that the gradient need not be a deal breaker. I was interested to see Flowrider's recent (very pretty) image - I would guess he had shutter button/grip up.

True,

I derped on that. I'll test again tomorrow perhaps with a better control (it was wicked hot today, I was struggling to do anything sweating and trying to see anything in the bright sun). I'll try a few frame fillers where the subject is being exposed by the light, and a background to make it obvious again like with that little chair. I'll wear brighter cloths too perhaps to make it more obvious.

I agree that in the real world shots like this, it's hard to see any gradient unless the HSS exposed subject is touching the edge of the frame when in vertical orientation. I don't think it will matter at all in horizontal orientation.

Very best,


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flowrider
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Nov 02, 2015 18:53 |  #1011

OceanRipple* wrote in post #17769832 (external link)
Hi, And Tx for testing 'in the wild'.

See my egg shell lacquered wall frames (currently post #4, p63) here:
https://photography-on-the.net …ead.php?t=13933​90&page=63

The gradient would not affect background items, ambient lit surfaces or clouds at all. For it to be obvious, the key light lit subject would have to nearly fill the frame etc.

Your images imply that the gradient need not be a deal breaker. I was interested to see Flowrider's recent (very pretty) image - I would guess he had shutter button/grip up.

Which image was that?


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PhilF
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Post edited over 4 years ago by PhilF.
     
Nov 02, 2015 22:26 |  #1012

MalVeauX wrote in post #17769734 (external link)
Heya,

Tested it today with wide angle on full frame. HSS in rapidly changing light so it was hard to dial in exposure perfectly each time since I was on my own (hence the rotten comps, etc). But the test is to see if there's easily discernible gradients here. I tested with shutter button left and right (up or down), however you want to describe it. I think without bright white things in the foreground (like clothing or that chair I used), it's a lot harder to really notice it in any appreciable. Noting specifically clouds on edges of each photograph. If the gradient was super pronounced it would show up there relative to the orientation of the shutter.

These were not really edited beyond a crop and straightening, so there's tons of little nasties in there as I didn't clean up or spend time on it. Just wanted to see the gradient.

Light source is 48" EZpro octa with inner lining & outer panel, camera right each time.
Rovelight in HSS, shooting mostly at 1/2 and 1/1 power. I used a 3 stop ND filter on some of them just to test out using both together.
The images with the ND filter should be easy to spot, they have lower shutter speeds (1/1000s). Anything faster than that didn't have the ND and was naked.
Used 35mm on full frame so that the gradient should be apparent if it is. I find on telephoto it doesn't show up hardly at all if any.

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/zEZV​vf  (external link) IMG_5769 (external link) by Martin Wise (external link), on Flickr

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/Akpu​qf  (external link) IMG_5792 (external link) by Martin Wise (external link), on Flickr

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/zEZd​8W  (external link) IMG_5791 (external link) by Martin Wise (external link), on Flickr

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/AkqV​Hh  (external link) IMG_5778 (external link) by Martin Wise (external link), on Flickr

https://flic.kr/p/AD1J​FP (external link)IMG_5777 (external link) by Martin Wise (external link), on Flickr

Very best,

what time of the day was this?.... I gather you were at full power on pic 2 and 3?


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MalVeauX
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Nov 02, 2015 22:45 |  #1013

PhilF wrote in post #17770221 (external link)
what time of the day was this?.... I gather you were at full power on pic 2 and 3?

Heya,

2pm or so? Still very bright out here in Florida.

1/2 power for most shots. I may have krept into 1/1 power on the 1/3200s shots simply because of distance to subject and due to using F2.

When I shoot F2.8, I can generally get away with 1/2 power.

I often times combine a 3 stop ND filter with the really wide apertures (F1.4 & F2) to give me more wriggle room on the shutter to figure out ambient since it's tough when the sky is ultrabright and the foreground is in a cloud shaded.

Very best,


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Nov 02, 2015 22:46 |  #1014

HSS full power in a Phottix Luna BD.

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OceanRipple*
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Nov 03, 2015 01:59 as a reply to  @ flowrider's post |  #1015

Hi, (Sorry: time difference),
Yes, I like that charming photo.

It's in portrait orientation and there is a marked difference in flash illumination falling on her arms - I think more than can be explained by fall-off alone. Your Strobe was camera right. Given the orientation of the Gradient from supersync, I'm guessing that you are in the habit of rotating your camera to 'shutter-button-up' for portrait orientation shots (as am I). If you rotated the other way (ie 'shutter-button-down'), then the light fall-off partially negates the Gradient, whereas 'shutter-button-up' & key light cam-right actually accentuates the Gradient, IYSWIM. Canon shutters move from top to bottom - so the upper part of a landscape image (as normally viewed) receives the weaker tail.

What's your take on this? Cheers




  
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MalVeauX
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Post edited over 4 years ago by MalVeauX. (2 edits in all)
     
Nov 03, 2015 17:01 |  #1016

Heya,

Tested the Rovelight again today around 2pm, while it's still very bright out. A storm rolled in pretty quickly, so light changed rapidly.

Used an ultrawide to make it simple to speed up the process.

Rovelight in HSS at 1/2 power, sometimes only 1/4 power.
Used a 60" silver lined black backed umbrella as the bounce surface (so I lose power there, but it still was more than enough).
YN622 for the HSS transmitting.

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Base exposure, no lighting:

IMAGE: https://farm1.staticflickr.com/660/22733723086_c5b7410e9b_z.jpg
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Lighting on:

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***************

IMAGE: https://farm1.staticflickr.com/665/22760464455_0d3c1e65ff_z.jpg
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***************

Then a storm rolled up, so I started dialing things back and played around a bit more. Still used HSS in this one.

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To the point where I didn't even need HSS anymore, and was at sync speed (and dialed down the Rovelight to around 1/8th or 1/16th power).

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If you compare the foreground, right side of frame, you can see the gradient from HSS vs non-HSS. Shutter button was down so top of shutter was towards light, on camera right.

Very best,

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OceanRipple*
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Post edited over 3 years ago by OceanRipple*. (5 edits in all)
     
Nov 03, 2015 18:07 as a reply to  @ MalVeauX's post |  #1017

Hi & Tx,

Next (still talking about 'H', Supersync or ODS) is to use fall-off in a way to reduce the apparent gradient. So, attached are a couple of shots, portrait orientation, one breaking the 'rule' and therefore accentuating the Gradient - and the second following the 'rule' and therefore reducing the visibility of the gradient (albeit, not to nil). Camera rotation was not changed - shutter button/grip was Up. The 'rule' breaker - first column - was illuminated (white refl brolly) from camera Right - the 'rule' follower - second column - , same mod, light was camera Left (and not feathered across in front of the surface - the modifier was aimed at the nearer, left, edge 'in-frame').


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bobbyz
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Post edited over 4 years ago by bobbyz. (2 edits in all)
     
Nov 03, 2015 19:34 |  #1018

MalVeauX wrote in post #17771179 (external link)
Heya,

Tested the Rovelight again today around 2pm, while it's still very bright out. A storm rolled in pretty quickly, so light changed rapidly.

Used an ultrawide to make it simple to speed up the process.

Rovelight in HSS at 1/2 power, sometimes only 1/4 power.
Used a 60" silver lined black backed umbrella as the bounce surface (so I lose power there, but it still was more than enough).
YN622 for the HSS transmitting.

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/AF9f​dx  (external link) a327_procmark (external link) by Martin Wise (external link), on Flickr

Base exposure, no lighting:

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/ACUg​QS  (external link) IMG_9431 (external link) by Martin Wise (external link), on Flickr


OK, I think I brought this before also. Since you mentioned 2 pm in the sun. Sunny 16 gives ISO100, f16, 1/100. So f16 to f5.6 is 3 stops. So for f5.6, shutter would be 3 stops higher, i.e. 1/800. So f5.6, 1/800, ISO100 should be perfectly exposed shot in the sun. Now in this case, it looks like 3 stops under-exposed to me. I hope my math is right. I know scene is back lit, maybe that is what is causing the issue. But I am looking at the sun on the grass and it is way under-exposed.

Same with the umbrella shot. It says ISO100, f2, 1/1000. At f2, you would be close to 1/6400 if not higher in the sun.


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MalVeauX
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Post edited over 4 years ago by MalVeauX.
     
Nov 03, 2015 19:41 |  #1019

bobbyz wrote in post #17771382 (external link)
OK, I think I brought this before also. Since you mentioned 2 pm in the sun. Sunny 16 gives ISO100, f16, 1/100. So f16 to f5.6 is 3 stops. So for f5.6, shutter would be 3 stops higher, i.e. 1/800. So f5.6, 1/800, ISO100 should be perfectly exposed shot in the sun. Now in this case, it looks like 3 stops under-exposed to me. I hope my math is right. I know scene is back lit, maybe that is what is causing the issue. But I am looking at the sun on the grass and it is way under-exposed.

Exposure was set for the sky, not the grass. And yes, backlit makes does matter, had I turned the camera around, the grass would be much brighter reflecting light, rather than casting shadows. There's just no way to expose both the sky & grass in this kind of photo on this sensor without a filter, or a sensor that can lift shadows greatly from high DR like a D810 or something, or Sony equivalent. If I had put +3 stops of exposure onto the grass, that sky would have been whited blown out.

When I was doing it, I would just put it in Live View, look at the sky exposure, and adjust shutter as necessary for that based on aperture. Then I adjust rovelight power based on the new settings. No meters. Everything done by eye on a LCD in the sun. Definitely not exact.

Very best,


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bobbyz
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Nov 03, 2015 19:43 |  #1020

flowrider wrote in post #17770248 (external link)
HSS full power in a Phottix Luna BD.

Would it be possible to do same shots at full power at increasing shutter speeds but same f-stop and ISO? This is what I could call a perfect exposed bg and then strobe matching it (almost). There is shadow on the bottom and i think that is due to the gradient where there is less strobe power on the bottom of the frame.

I want to see how much this strobe can handle the sunny outdoor situation. My Einstein which is similar power only lets me match sun at 1/200. I don't shoot much in sun now a days but always nice to know about the available options with newer strobes.


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Adorama Rovelight RL 600, thoughts?
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