To flash or not to flash, that is the question...

Now in the interest of discretion while taking the photo's I prefer not using flash during the day and ceremony. All is well in that section.

But...

Reception time, once the DJ turns all the lights off to blast them with stupid coloured lights....

How are the natural light photographers getting photos with a mix of skin tones and the ambient light?

Or are they just handing the photo's over with the clients having green/purple/orange faces for the first dance etc? Or B&W the entire night time?

Once the flash starts going the guests attitude shifts and all of a sudden they are acutely aware of having photos being taken.

Obviously necessity for flash will overrule my actions, and I am happier bouncing flash and mixing in the ambient light but ultimately I feel that if no flash was an possibility with the right technique it would make my clients more comfortable. My work definitely attracts the shy ones, and anything to make them feel less on the spot is in their benefit.

Any advice or realistically not possible?

Use flash all day (except ceremony), including strobing the room. By the time it's dark people are used to it and don't really seem to notice any more.

^^^^^ This ^^^^^^

learn how to use a flash properly if your gonna shoot weddings. End of conversation.

umphotography wrote in post #17107072
^^^^^ This ^^^^^^

learn how to use a flash properly if your gonna shoot weddings. End of conversation.

I'll disagree, though only slightly.

I prefer the "Use flash when it enhances the photo (or makes it necessary) but don't use flash for the sake of using flash."

To quote the bajillion other photographers, using flash should just be another tool in the tool box to create images.

Which it sounds like the OP is doing already. I'll use flash outside if I need to, inside when I need to, for ring shots if I need to, or any time in between if it'll make an image better. I have no fear of pulling out a flash and asking a couple to hang out for a couple seconds while I dial in a shot, that is what they're paying me to do. So basically keep doing what you're doing, if its working for you.

jmikolich, yes that's exactly what I am doing, pulling flash out basically once I have to go above 1600.

My question is not "I can't use flash, help" but rather how are photographers like Jeff Ascough getting good shots without using flash. Especially during dances etc.

There are many world class photographers who don't use flash at all, I am wondering what they are looking for before they press the shutter.

At the reception I use video lights, flash or ambient... it really depends what mood I'm going for in the image... The rest of the day I barely touch a flash. Other than on camera bouncing at receptions I don't really use flash at all. I have no need to and no real interest to learn.

You just need to learn how to see the light the way the camera does i.e. see the world with the same dynamic range. Stick liveview on or use a camera with an EVF and it is easy.

jimeuph1 wrote in post #17107186
My question is not "I can't use flash, help" but rather how are photographers like Jeff Ascough getting good shots without using flash. Especially during dances etc.

As someone who doesnt research other wedding photographers in my own area, much less across the pond.. I looked through Jeff's work, but I didn't come across where he states he shoots natural light 100% of the time. I did make it to where he states he uses Av mode instead of M

I guess, my response then is to point out something I saw in a thread here recently where someone underexposed a couple images by 5 stops, increased exposure by 5.00 in LR and the image was still reasonably intact. Yes this takes a careful scenario to fall within the DR of the camera, but still the amount of leeway PP has given us perhaps allows for enough latitude to underexpose and still create dynamic images via PP (thus without using a flash).

More succinctly, I think it just comes from "seeing the light" and knowing how to utilize the light thats there, some of Jeff's more striking images are so striking because of the contrast in ambient light between subject and background. I believe he (& his wife) are great at capitalizing on these moments. So there's no real defined way to go about it. I'm going to try and focus on this for my wedding this weekend and see how I do.

Looks like a radio triggered strobe to me:

http://www.jeffascough​.com/laura-jermaine-2/

Scorpio_e I think you are right, which answers my line of thought, clearly the "I am 100% no flash" is a load of bull. During the rest of the day I have no doubt he manages without flash because you are not fighting coloured lighting.

My Fiancé/second shooter made a good point, once the DJ lights are spinning round etc. then the flash is not nearly as intrusive or even noticeable, and that maybe it was me mistaking the lights shining into guests faces as a reaction to flash.

jmikolich, that high contrast and light etc. is mostly in post, I watched a video of him editing some files and raw going in was just as flat as anyone else's files. Framing and composition on the fly though is Jeff's stand out feature. Stunning locations are certainly a bonus though...

jimeuph1 wrote in post #17107186
jmikolich, yes that's exactly what I am doing, pulling flash out basically once I have to go above 1600.

My question is not "I can't use flash, help" but rather how are photographers like Jeff Ascough getting good shots without using flash. Especially during dances etc.

There are many world class photographers who don't use flash at all, I am wondering what they are looking for before they press the shutter.

To me saying "I use the flash when it gets too dark" suggests you're concentrating on only one aspect of light - quantity - rather than considering the two other important aspects, direction and color. Flash does many things, like fill in shadows (under eyes), highlight subjects, provide catchlights, and provides nice side lighting when bounced.

I doubt there are any really world class photographers that never use flash. Those who get close probably do a ton of post processing.

Tim, I started out using bounce flash all day, then learning about photographers like Jeff Ascough, as already discussed in this thread as no flash at least until first dance etc. I tried it without and got much better pictures, guests relaxed or didn't even notice I were there making for some very candid shots that previously I just wasn't getting.

It's all a compromise, if I were working with models then a lighting setup to get the lighting I want use ISO 100 and stop down for lens optimal sharpness etc. but my referrals are loving 1 how I am working and 2 the moments that are bringing clients to laughter and tears upon delivery.

The thing I was concerned with was once the colours from DJ's started ruining skin tones, I knew something needed to be done, but as we have already discussed it seems even the advocates of no flash, do use it for the exact same problem I noticed, nobody else has come up with a solution without using flash, so my original thought of high ISO and bounce flash to not obliterate the DJ lighting completely, seems to be the most solid.

Again it's a compromise, but it is done with paying clients best interests. I seem to attract rather shy clients who don't want the posing stuff and are very self conscious, my working methods are keeping the important people happy. At the expense of ultimate technical quality the clients get a comfortable day without me fussing over them.

I will assume your working methods suit the clients you get. It doesn't matter how we each get to the goal of happy clients, as long as they are happy.

If you've considered it and it's working for you, great

At the risk of sounding redundant (this type of question has been posed numerous times on POTN and I've replied in much the same way every time), I believe using flash during the day (when photographing subjects who are looking into the camera) is crucial. I'd love to have a camera/lens combination that could capture mid-day ambient light (which is when most of my weddings take place, outdoors) in exactly the same way as my brain and eyes process that light. Alas, there is no camera (brain) or lens (eyes) that can even come close. This is where I use flash, to help my images look more natural, not less. The proper use of fill flash makes my images look more like our brain sees things. I also use flash during outdoor ceremonies; again, so my images look more like how our brains see things (otherwise I'd have either a perfectly exposed wedding party and a completely white background or a great background with a nice silhouette of the wedding party!).

For lighting receptions (if they're indoors), I use at least two off-camera lights and one--if necessary--on camera.

Flash while shooting the groom and groomsmen getting ready unless they have amazing natural light. Never used flash at a ceremony. Depending on location of family, bridal party and couple shots, natural light or strobe. Reception is strobes and sometimes I will turn the flash off and crank up the iso to grab some grainy colored light dancing photos that are just for fun.

Each to their own, but you don't need a flash at all to shoot an amazing wedding. Plenty of photographers use them very sparingly, and sometimes not at all. For this wedding a few weeks back I didn't touch my flashes:

http://vanmiddleton.co​m …athy-chris-toronto-canada

nor did I use them for this one:

http://vanmiddleton.co​m …/adrianna-nathan-newrybar

But for this one I used them alot:

http://vanmiddleton.co​m …/bonnie-nick-harvest-cafe

Are the images technically perfect? No, of course not. But sometimes it's better to trade imperfection with spontaneity and authenticity. Yes a flash can fill in shadows under eyes etc - they can also make every image look like it was staged and manufactured. And they can kill time and moments, especially when they're over-thought, over-used.

To clarify - some photogs rely heavily on flash photography and do amazing work. Others don't. There's no right or wrong, just different approaches.

(caveat: I almost always use flash for dance shots)

Regarding your question about DJ lights, flash might struggle to over-come those horrible dots anyway. I usually ask the DJ to turn them off for the important dances. When things go a bit wild I'm not too fussed. There are usually enough bodies on the dancefloor to shield most of them, and by then it's chaotic anyway, and I don't mind weird lights for those shots.