Video image noise that seems to disappear when shown on a TV

Hi Everyone,

I am starting to shoot a documentary in the coming weeks. The current camera I am using is a 550D (T2i).

I don't have a budget to go with a large sensor video camera at the moment, so the 550D will have to do initially.

I'm shooting through a 24-105 L series (so the glass seems to be OK).

During low light testing, I have notice massive noise issues on the footage (image noise, not audio noise). I have tried ISO 200, 400 and 800. The iso 200 setting seems not to have a messy purple coloured noise that we are used to seeing, but it's more like the pixels in the shot are 'active' in that it's kind of like having marching ant's at every pixel.

Funnily enough, when this footage is played through a TV, this noise issue is pretty much undetectable, and the footage looks great. It just looks terrible on my computer monitors (iMac 27 inch).

Is this how things normally are? Does TV hide the noise? (I am guessing due to interlacing on the TV screen)

Dead keen for some opinions on this one, and will post some footage in the coming days to show what I mean regarding the 'noise' issues.

Thanks,

Cliff

Just to expand on things a little, the noise at iso 200 is more like film grain I guess, it just looks like the pixels are 'crazed' and dancing around a little. Almost impossible to spot on the TV screen, so I may be over worrying things here a little.

Thanks,

Cliff

Try using ISO multiples of 160. They are the cleanest for video. I can't find a link at the moment as I'm on a tablet but it certainly works on my 60d which I believe is the same type of sensor.

Edit:
https://vimeo.com/2887​6836

Are you under exposing your footage? The reason I asked is I shot a video of my class doing a project under fluorescent lighting at 3200 ISO, using a 700D. I burnt the footage to DVD and it's very clean on a TV. The footage straight out of my camera is also quite clean on my computer. There's a little grain in the darker parts of the images but nothing like you described.

I shot in manual mode at 1920/24, 1/50th second at f/5.6 and 3200 ISO.

I just put up some unedited footage at 3200 ISO on YouTube of the above project. Probably doesn't show all that much, but you'll get the idea.


https://www.youtube.co​m …VVi2t2LI&featur​e=youtu.be

StayFrosty wrote in post #17128336
Try using ISO multiples of 160. They are the cleanest for video. I can't find a link at the moment as I'm on a tablet but it certainly works on my 60d which I believe is the same type of sensor.

Edit:
https://vimeo.com/2887​6836

Thanks heaps for the link. I cannot think of why multiples of 160 should be any better or worse, but it does appear as though they are in that clip.

Looking at the clip, I have pretty much the same issues, so I guess I don't have too much to worry about. The key thing for me is that the footage looks awful on my computer, the noise is just horrible, but looks fine on my TV, it's like the TV just smooths all the noise out (even though I have no noise reduction enabled on the TV).

I cannot do it now, but I'll post a few links up tomorrow of my test footage to show you.

Thanks again,

Cliff

yogestee wrote in post #17128564
Are you under exposing your footage? The reason I asked is I shot a video of my class doing a project under fluorescent lighting at 3200 ISO, using a 700D. I burnt the footage to DVD and it's very clean on a TV. The footage straight out of my camera is also quite clean on my computer. There's a little grain in the darker parts of the images but nothing like you described.

I shot in manual mode at 1920/24, 1/50th second at f/5.6 and 3200 ISO.

I just put up some unedited footage at 3200 ISO on YouTube of the above project. Probably doesn't show all that much, but you'll get the idea.


https://www.youtube.co​m …VVi2t2LI&featur​e=youtu.be

Yes, the footage is underexposed in areas as the purpose of this test was for a set of up-coming interviews that will take place in mechanics workshops with crappy lighting. I don't want to 'over light' the scene as the point is to show that these are 'back yard' type shops and that they are a little dark etc.

I'll place a up a few clips tomorrow and paste a link to them so you can have a look. Your footage there (if shot at 3200) is very clear - which is encouraging.

Thanks heaps for the reply,

Cliff

klippe wrote in post #17128926
Yes, the footage is underexposed in areas as the purpose of this test was for a set of up-coming interviews that will take place in mechanics workshops with crappy lighting. I don't want to 'over light' the scene as the point is to show that these are 'back yard' type shops and that they are a little dark etc.

I'll place a up a few clips tomorrow and paste a link to them so you can have a look. Your footage there (if shot at 3200) is very clear - which is encouraging.

Thanks heaps for the reply,

Cliff

Not a problem Cliff. Just a thought mate, maybe a bit of grain might add to the scenario you described.

I think Cliff(e) the problem is likely with your editing set up.
Are you using Final Cut or Prem Pro?

Moppie wrote in post #17129034
I think Cliff(e) the problem is likely with your editing set up.
Are you using Final Cut or Prem Pro?

Ah, I call bollocks on that Moppie (with all due respect ). The footage is the footage is the footage. I can watch that footage on my PC laptop directly from the camera and it looks pretty bad. I can do the same on my Mac and it looks pretty bad.

I take the same unedited, untouched footage and play it on my TV and it's way, way cleaner looking. I cannot help but think that it's some deal with the TV interlacing the footage and 'smoothing' it out somehow (one field at a time etc).

In short, I can get away with ISO 1600 on the footage on the TV with out issues, it's perfectly watchable, yet on the computers it looks like trash (way too much noise).

The noise is in the footage and isn't related to the editor I use (which is Final Cut Pro for this project, FYI)

I was watching some footage from a Canon XF300 the other night (it's apparently pretty good with low light, so the reviews say) and I must say that it appeared to have similar issues to my footage.

Even at ISO 100 I see visible grain (again undetectable on the TV when played on it).

The whole things pretty weird, I am thinking someone will know why it's cleaner on the Telly than it is on the PC/Mac.

If you've got some time Moppie we should meet up to have a look at it and see if we can suss it out - before it does my head in!

Thanks,

Cliff(e)

yogestee wrote in post #17129023
Not a problem Cliff. Just a thought mate, maybe a bit of grain might add to the scenario you described.

You're absolutely right, I have a shoot this weekend in a hospital, and I am thinking that the grain will help with the 'visual impact' of that footage in terms of making the story more 'gritty' (pardon the pun).

At some stage I am going to have to release my fear on this and just shoot the blooming thing without worrying about it.

I also have the option of purchasing "NeatVideo" which does an amazing job of grain removal (slow render times, but I can cope with that). I have tried the trial version and it's an impressive piece of kit to add to the editing arsenal.

Thanks again for your input, I don't often traverse these forums these days, but there's some awesome knowledge and advice on them. Rock on!

Cliff

At what viewing distances are you watching these videos Cliff? A few things could come into play like screen size and viewing distances.

Dunno!

klippe wrote in post #17129085
Ah, I call bollocks on that Moppie (with all due respect ).

:p:p

Are you watching it full screen on the iMac?
Are you watching it from an unrendered timeline?

Both of these can make clean footage look messy, the first because it's upscaling 1920X1080 to fit 2560X1440 and the second because its not showing you everything.

Also TV's often have very dark black points and exaggerated contrast, which will hide noise in the shadows of any footage.

yogestee wrote in post #17129238
At what viewing distances are you watching these videos Cliff? A few things could come into play like screen size and viewing distances.

Dunno!

When I'm editing I'm up close of course, and my couch isn't too far from my 42 inch telly, it really does just seem as though the TV handles the grain/noise better. It's weird.

Moppie wrote in post #17129989
:p:p

Are you watching it full screen on the iMac?
Are you watching it from an unrendered timeline?

Both of these can make clean footage look messy, the first because it's upscaling 1920X1080 to fit 2560X1440 and the second because its not showing you everything.

Also TV's often have very dark black points and exaggerated contrast, which will hide noise in the shadows of any footage.

I normally use a second monitor for my viewing during editing and I set the viewport to 100% (so 1920 x 1080). My iMac monitor goes much higher than that but I make a point of watching the footage at 100% where possible.

I think you may be onto something with regards to the shadows, but overall the TVs (both that I have at home, one 42inch and a smaller 32 inch) play the footage seemingly very cleanly.

I did do a comparison with my Mac and PCs last night after I read your post (to be sure that what I was telling you was correct) and I have to say that the Mac does appear show more "purple" noise than the PCs, but it's not what I would call a big difference.

I do think that I may just be over worrying about 'grain' here.

As mentioned in my earlier posts, I'll place a few links up tonight some time (it'll be late) so you guys can take a look. I might be worrying about nothing.

Thanks,

Cliff

I've got a meeting on Lincoln road at 2:30, if it finishes early enough I'll pop down and have a look

I do know that footage looks cleaner on my TV than it does on my monitors, the final export generally looks better as well. That using a Dell Monitor with the same LG panel as your iMac, and Prem Pro.