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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 15 Sep 2014 (Monday) 11:20
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-= 7D2 owners unite! Discuss and post photos!

 
John ­ Sheehy
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Oct 30, 2014 07:31 |  #211

DJHaze596 wrote in post #17157697 (external link)
But the extra reach is nothing, I never understood the hype of Crop Vs Full Frame Reach. I went from a 70D to a 6D and i will gladly say the reach difference is like half a inch on the image, I even put a 1.4x Extender on the 70D and the difference is again, hardly anything and for what it cost ($500), it's a waste of money.

I thought about getting the 7D Mark II for Wildlife but i might just keep the 6D as Image Quality will be better. But i do want to see RAW samples at High ISO, It's looking like the 70D ISO performance but it might be a stop better.

If you don't need to back up or zoom out to compose your scene with APS-c, FF "Image Quality" is completely irrelevant. You need the FULL FRAME for "full frame" image quality.

Now, it just so happens that a 1.6x crop from the 6D has noticeably less noise than a 7D at high ISOs, everything else being equal including displayed subject size. However, this is not a "FF" quality per se, but is model-specific. The 7D2's read noise is a stop lower than the 7D's, and is much finer, so I foresee my 6D staying home when I go out shooting birds when my 7D2 is delivered. I use the 6D now when the light is low for noise and AF purposes, but I expect those edges to disappear.

Until Canon releases a FF camera with a lot less read noise than the 6D/5D3/1Dx, the 7D2 is going to be the Canon DSLR for FLLP (focal-length-limited photography), in all lighting situations.




  
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John ­ Sheehy
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Oct 30, 2014 07:41 |  #212

DJHaze596 wrote in post #17158151 (external link)
I reach my limit everyday when i go out and do Wildlife Photography. I'm not disagreeing but also take note that bigger MP Sensors require really good glass to take advantage of all 36 MP. More MP is not always a good thing either. The point of my post is Crop Bodies/Extenders are pointless if your goal is more reach. The Difference is Minimal compared to Full Frame therefore your better off with Full Frame because you hold more Detail in the Images which will Crop better than a Crop Sensor Camera. Your just Cropping the image even more lol

You aren't making any sense; you are combining elements of completely different scenarios to create a synthetic one. In any situation that you crop in software with an APS-c, you will be cropping even more with a FF camera, which many many less pixels and less detail with most cameras (and all Canon DSLRs of recent manufacture).

Reading between the lines, I think that your definition of "Detail" is aliased pixelation, which actually shows the details of the problems of undersampling, rather than the details of the subject; they are just loosely based on the subject.




  
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dgrPhotos
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Oct 30, 2014 07:52 |  #213

Canon7DDSLR wrote in post #17241362 (external link)
pardon me, I thought the picture is kind of soft comparing to 5Dmkiii or 1dmkiv. or just slightly better than 7D ...

No surprise if a full frame camera performs better at a higher ISO. If that is the priority then full frame should be the preference.




  
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stsva
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Oct 30, 2014 08:00 |  #214

Canon7DDSLR wrote in post #17241362 (external link)
pardon me, I thought the picture is kind of soft comparing to 5Dmkiii or 1dmkiv. or just slightly better than 7D ...

It's a cat (inherently soft and furry), not a test chart. :cool:


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Oct 30, 2014 08:03 |  #215

Canon7DDSLR wrote in post #17241362 (external link)
pardon me, I thought the picture is kind of soft comparing to 5Dmkiii or 1dmkiv. or just slightly better than 7D ...

You cannot tell that from just one pic. Glass and its ability to resolve to the density of a sensor has MUCH to do with IQ. Without taking glass on multiple bodies to compare at the same time, you cannot draw any conclusions. The light is drab, there is no contrast, and therefore no detail. Detail requires light.


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Kickflipkid687
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Oct 30, 2014 08:10 |  #216

lol. I read a review on the 7D II, and their complaint was that it wasn't full-frame.... Well yeah.. it's a camera that is replacing a crop-sensor. I guess if you want full-frame, you gotta get the 1DX/6D/Mark III. Or switch to Nikon and get the D750.

I got the 7D II last night, locally. I'll say that it feels VERY much like the 5D III. Really, you might not even realize at first. This is going off memory though. But the 7D is faster for sure/has more customization I'm pretty sure, and some hardware improvements.

I was shooting at ISO 16000, without seeing any major issues that I did on my 60D. But I need to look at them on the PC and do more testing. I only got to use it for about 1 hour so far indoors in crappy light.


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Oct 30, 2014 08:50 |  #217

First moon shot

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1st 7D2 Moon (external link) by lennycarl08 (external link), on Flickr

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Canon_Lover
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Oct 30, 2014 08:56 |  #218

Technically, full frame does not collect more light because of the sensor size. It collects more light because of the lens speed and image circle projection, so total volume.

Per volume of light entering the camera, the 7D2 is probably equal or better than the 5D3. In the case of the 7D2, you have no optical obstruction when trying to gain more pixels on target, as when putting a TC on a 5D.

You have to pony up some serious cash and muscle to maintain the full frame image circle with long teles with fast apertures. :)


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ksbal
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Oct 30, 2014 08:59 |  #219

Beautiful first moon shot! well done!


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Andy ­ R
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Oct 30, 2014 09:00 |  #220

stsva wrote in post #17241446 (external link)
It's a cat (inherently soft and furry), not a test chart. :cool:


bw!


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Canon7DDSLR
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Oct 30, 2014 09:10 |  #221

stsva wrote in post #17241446 (external link)
It's a cat (inherently soft and furry), not a test chart. :cool:

if u take the pic with a test chart I'm sure 5Dmkiii would be sharper than 7Dmkii at that ISO. I had used 7D before, the cat pic is just slightly better as taken by the 7Dmkii.

Just an opinion if I would to upgrade my 7D to FF instead of 7Dmkii.... but for that price and the new AF system. the 7Dmkii is unbeatable. :)




  
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DJHaze596
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Oct 30, 2014 10:04 |  #222

John Sheehy wrote in post #17241401 (external link)
If you don't need to back up or zoom out to compose your scene with APS-c, FF "Image Quality" is completely irrelevant. You need the FULL FRAME for "full frame" image quality.

Now, it just so happens that a 1.6x crop from the 6D has noticeably less noise than a 7D at high ISOs, everything else being equal including displayed subject size. However, this is not a "FF" quality per se, but is model-specific. The 7D2's read noise is a stop lower than the 7D's, and is much finer, so I foresee my 6D staying home when I go out shooting birds when my 7D2 is delivered. I use the 6D now when the light is low for noise and AF purposes, but I expect those edges to disappear.

Until Canon releases a FF camera with a lot less read noise than the 6D/5D3/1Dx, the 7D2 is going to be the Canon DSLR for FLLP (focal-length-limited photography), in all lighting situations.

John Sheehy wrote in post #17241419 (external link)
You aren't making any sense; you are combining elements of completely different scenarios to create a synthetic one. In any situation that you crop in software with an APS-c, you will be cropping even more with a FF camera, which many many less pixels and less detail with most cameras (and all Canon DSLRs of recent manufacture).

Reading between the lines, I think that your definition of "Detail" is aliased pixelation, which actually shows the details of the problems of undersampling, rather than the details of the subject; they are just loosely based on the subject.

All i was saying is the difference between Crop and Full Frame reach is Minimal, Same thing with Extenders and my point was why waste the money on it. Again, when i went from my 70D to the 6D, I was shocked at the difference in reach, It's was literally nothing. Go Full Frame and never look back, just my two cents.


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Oct 30, 2014 10:08 as a reply to  @ DJHaze596's post |  #223

everyone has their perspectives. I have a 50 and when I borrowed my friend's 5D for a week I really had to get accustomed to the difference of 50mm on the full frame.


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Kickflipkid687
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Oct 30, 2014 10:13 |  #224

I felt the fov difference was quite big. To each their own I guess.
It was harder to track birds I felt because I lose that 60%.

I don't feel a 6d would work well enough for me for birds.
I need all the speed I can get. Also reach. I've looked at sonys even for image quality, but the AF is gonna be worthless for what I do. At least using my canon glass.

A nikon d750 would prob be a better bet. But that's slower too.


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DJHaze596
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Oct 30, 2014 10:15 |  #225

Immaculens wrote in post #17241670 (external link)
everyone has their perspectives. I have a 50 and when I borrowed my friend's 5D for a week I really had to get accustomed to the difference of 50mm on the full frame.

for sure, wide angles and 50mm lenses are what really make the difference. I used the 300mm 99% of the time so the difference for me was nothing.


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