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Thread started 15 Sep 2014 (Monday) 11:20
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-= 7D2 owners unite! Discuss and post photos!

 
gschlact
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Jan 04, 2016 12:52 |  #8131

Birds - Detail - Distance - Focal Length
I am somewhat stating the obvious, but hoping for some quick rules of thumb you experienced birders use. Specifically, looking for distance ranges at 400mm w/ 7dii that still give you acceptable detail resolution on your birding. (I do realize that longer FL is a birders best friend) so three main questions below....

It's all about "pixels on the duck. "
(1) How many pixels per inch of "duck" do you minimally try to keep?
(I know when shooting Sports, I am not happy with 100% view detail if less than 100 pixels per inch on someone's face.)

(2) I am not sure that 100 ppi of feathers is enough detail at 100%?

7dii +400mm in the narrower sensor direction gives:
. . @26ft 12 inches of 'duck' or 300 ppi from the ~3600 pixels
It linearly grows so @52ft gives 200ppi and @78ft gives 100 ppi

(3) So, how do you get so close? If among 50ft trees and bird flying at treetop, if the bird is 50ft away, you are at ~78' limit and down to 100 ppi.

I shot a 10 point buck yesterday that was further than I realized at ~400 ft that gave me a soft 25 ppi result I wasn't happy with. (likely some atmospherics added to softness). I was pretty excited to see it, didn't realize just how far it was until I got home to the softness.




  
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Archibald
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Jan 04, 2016 13:50 |  #8132

gschlact wrote in post #17844228 (external link)
Birds - Detail - Distance - Focal Length
I am somewhat stating the obvious, but hoping for some quick rules of thumb you experienced birders use. Specifically, looking for distance ranges at 400mm w/ 7dii that still give you acceptable detail resolution on your birding. (I do realize that longer FL is a birders best friend) so three main questions below....

It's all about "pixels on the duck. "
(1) How many pixels per inch of "duck" do you minimally try to keep?
(I know when shooting Sports, I am not happy with 100% view detail if less than 100 pixels per inch on someone's face.)

(2) I am not sure that 100 ppi of feathers is enough detail at 100%?

7dii +400mm in the narrower sensor direction gives:
. . @26ft 12 inches of 'duck' or 300 ppi from the ~3600 pixels
It linearly grows so @52ft gives 200ppi and @78ft gives 100 ppi

(3) So, how do you get so close? If among 50ft trees and bird flying at treetop, if the bird is 50ft away, you are at ~78' limit and down to 100 ppi.

I shot a 10 point buck yesterday that was further than I realized at ~400 ft that gave me a soft 25 ppi result I wasn't happy with. (likely some atmospherics added to softness). I was pretty excited to see it, didn't realize just how far it was until I got home to the softness.

No math allowed when shooting birds!


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A1original
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Jan 04, 2016 13:52 |  #8133

Archibald wrote in post #17844294 (external link)
No math allowed when shooting birds!

+1 I agree. :-P


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Pondrader
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Post edited over 7 years ago by Pondrader.
     
Jan 04, 2016 15:33 as a reply to  @ gschlact's post |  #8134

Thats too funny Guy, Birds are a hole different animal, ...lol for little birds it needs to be measured in more like inches for me. lol Shooting today with the 1.4III on the 100-400LII was super I think. being able to sneak is a good attribute for a birder. 10m is all this guy can ask for in the light we have this time of year. But 10 feet is way better.

First is ten meters the second ... same branch ...same bird ..same distance as you've seen before, different camera of course. both in AIservo - spot

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Jan 04, 2016 15:38 as a reply to  @ Pondrader's post |  #8135

Given the time of the year looks like some great light Jeff!

Any compensation given due to the snow?

CB




  
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Pondrader
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Jan 04, 2016 15:38 |  #8136

Other end of the spectrum, all shot using the canon 1.4III, all handheld, at -18c today

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gschlact
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Jan 04, 2016 15:49 |  #8137

Pondrader wrote in post #17844414 (external link)
Thats too funny Guy, Birds are a hole different animal, ...lol for little birds it needs to be measured in more like inches for me. lol Shooting today with the 1.4III on the 100-400LII was super I think. being able to sneak is a good attribute for a birder. 10m is all this guy can ask for in the light we have this time of year. But 10 feet is way better.

First is ten meters the second ... same branch ...same bird ..same distance as you've seen before, different camera of course. both in AIservo - spot
Hosted photo: posted by Pondrader in
./showthread.php?p=178​44414&i=i138735868
forum: Canon Digital Cameras

Hosted photo: posted by Pondrader in
./showthread.php?p=178​44414&i=i29572648
forum: Canon Digital Cameras

thanks for the sanity check. (these at 10meters are about 280 ppi, nice detail)




  
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gschlact
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Jan 04, 2016 16:02 |  #8138

These were the other 2 birds from Sat morning's walk using 400mm 70-200f2.8ii+TC2xiii
The first one is 1800 pixel wide crop, but downsized by POTN. He looked rather tattered. ID please?
1748 (~150-200ppi so about 45 ft.

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This one 1773 of the woodpecker is 1600 pixels tall crop. also ~150ppi 45ft.

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Jan 04, 2016 16:03 |  #8139

its a super combo for a guy like me. I tend to run and shoot a lot. That kind of math never enters my mind when I'm out shooting lol ....Super Big Crop

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Jan 04, 2016 16:14 |  #8140

It seems to be for ever gloomy here and it has hardly stopped raining for the last 6 weeks, pretty much inside only photos for the foreseeable..........

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Jan 04, 2016 18:01 |  #8141

- Numenius phaeopus - Ilha Terceira - Açores

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7D2 - 550D - 17-85 IS USM - 18-135 IS - SP 150-600 VC USD - 70-200 F4L - 2xTC

  
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Jan 04, 2016 18:14 as a reply to  @ 13867's post |  #8142

No I was shooting in Manual... these days just compensating using the shutter and the meter. your so right though the light is nasty, but then thats how I like it. today was the first time I've seen the sun in a long time


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Jan 04, 2016 18:56 |  #8143

Another couple of shots from Busch Gardens Christmas Town, Williamsburg, Virginia.

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Some Canon stuff and a little bit of Yongnuo.
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andrewhuxman
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Jan 04, 2016 19:30 |  #8144

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gschlact
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Jan 04, 2016 21:25 |  #8145

Pondrader wrote in post #17844454 (external link)
its a super combo for a guy like me. I tend to run and shoot a lot. That kind of math never enters my mind when I'm out shooting lol ....Super Big Crop
Hosted photo: posted by Pondrader in
./showthread.php?p=178​44454&i=i159206816
forum: Canon Digital Cameras

Hosted photo: posted by Pondrader in
./showthread.php?p=178​44454&i=i20850595
forum: Canon Digital Cameras

That's quite a precise description. "super big crop" . NOT! ;-)a)
I bet again, not much more than 10 meters away.
I agree it probably doesn't enter your mind as far as a numerical number, but when you are running from one shot to another, you most definitely likely have "muscle memory" of visual distances that you nkmow are proper and those that you know won't give you appropriate detail. And, as you said, birds are a different rule of thumb Tha the furry critters due to fine feather detail.




  
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