Mini-Review: Initial 7D vs 7D2 Raw Comparison from Imaging Resource

Now that Canon has released the new version of DPP for the 7D2, I took the raw files from Imaging Resource for the 7D and 7D2, ran them through DPP, slid the NR sliders down to zero, and made sure all other settings were identical (including the sharpening method). Here is the result from 2 spots in their test scene from ISO 800 through ISO 12800. Enjoy, this might save you a bit of time if you were considering doing the same.

IMAGE LINK: http://teamspeed.smugm​ug.com …257269&k=d9GjHs​7&lb=1&s=O

Now the first thing I notice is that there seems to be little difference. Here is an interesting development. The 7D raw file has the sharpness setting to use the sharpness method (the original method in DPP I believe). The 7D2 raw says to use the Unsharp Mask option instead by default. Here is what the difference is on the 7D2 ISO 3200 shot using one sharpening method vs the other. When I did the earlier comparisons, I left the respective raw settings alone for sharpening, this time around I made them equal.

That doesnt look very promising for noise. 3200 is barely usable to my eye. MKIV was better than that

So what happens if we turn off all DPP sharpening and NR for both at ISO 3200?

If we allow Canon to do what they want with the 7D2 images, they do come out cleaner than the 7D equivalent using the factory settings. This is to be expected, Canon knows their raw output best from each body and will make their software (and camera settings) to do the best with that output. However, I would normally fear that those that use 3rd party tools that have to reverse engineer the raw files might not see any gains, but people seem to be running 70D raw files through LR and other tools and are happier with their files than they were with the 7D. Strange isn't it?

Another interesting observation. I know some of you have purchased my 7D noise removal actions in the past. I took the 7D2 12800 test image, and left all the factory in-camera settings alone to produce the JPG from DPP using the raw. I then tweaked the raw the way I would for the 7D (lower sharpening, lower the NR sliders, then process the results using a mix of Noiseware and other filters on each color layer).

Suffice it to say that the 7D2 images out of DPP now are pretty close to the results from my own noise actions I developed 5 years ago. That means a slight time savings for me, even though I would just run my action in bulk on a folder of images and come back later. I guess this means I just need to spend time on the 7D2 raw to create a new action set that will do even better!

7D2 12800 Raw vs Processed

I would need much more than 20 minutes obviously to analyze the 7D2 high ISO images to produce a new set of actions, but this looks somewhat promising as a launchpad in the future should I get a 7D2 and create a new set of NR actions.

7D2 12800 Raw to JPG via DPP (top) vs my workflow with a raw file then a post NR series of steps as a trial action...
(want to see the full 7D2 12800 post processed image? full size here)

Thanks for posting these images. Initially I was kind of bummed but I think I need to wait and see what develops.

Very useful (I think). I never realized that comparing two cameras would be so complicated.

To my rough eye, it looks like the 7D2 has lower noise than the 7D by maybe 1/2 or 2/3 stop. That is not really that much. So my conclusion for now is that I will keep my 7D, and that prices for used 7D bodies should rise.

Archibald wrote in post #17186779
Very useful (I think). I never realized that comparing two cameras would be so complicated.

To my rough eye, it looks like the 7D2 has lower noise than the 7D by maybe 1/2 or 2/3 stop. That is not really that much. So my conclusion for now is that I will keep my 7D, and that prices for used 7D bodies should rise.

They are only complicated when you use DPP as the raw converter, because it honors in-camera settings. So you have to reverse engineer what the engineers set in-camera to figure out why you get different results with each body, then try to level the playing field to see what shakes out. Others use 3rd party converters, but then have to rely on the reverse engineering and updates to those software packages, and hope they do a good job, or in the case of LR, you may have to pay to upgrade if they don't update the older versions.

If you leave well-enough alone and use the engineered NR values and sharpening methods from the raw file through DPP, the results of the 7D2 is indeed around 2/3 difference. There is more going on than just the settings though too, because you cannot use the same sharpening method on the 7D as the 7D2 out of camera, the image goes bad quickly.

Of course I cannot leave well enough alone, because I know I have the skills to improve just about any Canon raw file noise by almost 1 stop given enough time to analyze the raw files at different settings and scenes. It takes me almost a full week to finesse the final actions, but the results are worth it. I get an extra stop out of any camera I own, and the time to post process is very minimal going forward. I have no doubt I can pull usable 12800 images out of the 7D2, but ISO 16000 might be a stretch.

umphotography wrote in post #17186684
That doesnt look very promising for noise. 3200 is barely usable to my eye. MKIV was better than that

agreed.

Lets see if what happens with time,the price of used 1dmk4's, and how well the 7d2 AF is. As someone that was on the fence between the 7d2 and a used 1dm4. It's not an easy call in either direction

Thanks for the comparison TeamSpeed. Definitely not surprising to me, as such is the limitations of a high MP crop sensor. Im spoiled by my full frame camera but I will make do with the limits of the 7D2. Not buying the camera for high ISO anyway, but great to see a step over the 7D.

The 5D3 will do what I need it while the 7D2 hits the masses and people have their way with it. I can get clean 12800 from it, which is my usual ISO around the house and at the games. Although 12800 like this on the 7D2 would be a very nice thing indeed.

Thanks for doing this. If you happen to get bored and want to throw the 70D in there, I'm sure plenty of us would be curious.

Again. Your not buying this camera for ISO and Noise. Looks slightly better to me than curent 7D. You are buying the 7D2 for the AF system and Reach with the 1.6 format. Current 7D WONT touch this new one with the AF system its gonna have..........sound familiar........ 5D2 v/s 5D3.

Im still really pissed at canon for discontinuing the 1.3 sensor. I dont think they are going to be able to do a lot more with the crop sensor form Noise and ISO improvements. I mean, what we want, usable ISO at 12800 ISO on a 1.6 crop just aint gonna happen.

I might say screw it and get a 1Dx, but were back to the 1.6 FOV factor that is so important for wildlife photographers. Same argument as when the 1Dx hit the market.........300 F/2.8 v/s 400 F/2.8 is $$$ 5ooo.oo.

Hate you right now Canon