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Thread started 07 Oct 2014 (Tuesday) 08:17
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Scott Kelby's take on 7D mark II after real world use

 
davesrose
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Oct 08, 2014 17:48 |  #76

Thomas Campbell wrote in post #17202174 (external link)
YBetter IQ. And if I didn't make that choice, I wouldn't have gotten this cover because I wouldn't have had a image that could have been used like this.

QUOTED IMAGE

A cover that has seriously been Photoshopped and has low DR?? I've seen several posts of yours in which you espouse greater DR and superior IQ with Nikons, but I have yet to see a photograph that's a demonstration of an inherently better IQ that you couldn't get with a Canon. Did you bother to watch Scott Kelby's video? His jpeg wedding photos from the 7DmkII at ISO 1600 is more impressive as they have a good contrast range for a "measly" crop camera SOOC. Admittedly he is a professional and it's more about total setup and lighting. Your current arguments and targeting Teamspeed just seem like pot calling the kettle black IMO.


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Thomas ­ Campbell
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Oct 08, 2014 17:52 |  #77

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17202263 (external link)
Sports needs AF first and foremost, a super clean 25600 means little if AF cannot keep up, so in that situation AF is the most important thing

You realize people were taking incredible sports images before there was any autofocus, right?

I can shoot ISO 6400 on the 7D for sports pretty easily, I did that and marching band for years with great results.

I'm sure your definition of great results and my definition of great results differs greatly. I had the 7D for a couple years and shot it a lot. I wouldn't use it at 6400.

IQ is just part of the equation and easily isn't the single large factor in photography for many people in many situations. IQ also isn't just ISO, yet another fallacy on the boards.

I don't think I have ever seen anyone say IQ can be boiled down to ISO performance. I agree that it is a part of the equation, but do believe it is the single biggest factor in choosing a camera.


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Thomas ­ Campbell
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Oct 08, 2014 17:55 |  #78

davesrose wrote in post #17202273 (external link)
A cover that has seriously been Photoshopped and has low DR?? I've seen several posts of yours in which you espouse greater DR and superior IQ with Nikons, but I have yet to see a photograph that's a demonstration of an inherently better IQ that you couldn't get with a Canon.

Blame the low dynamic range on shooting with a Canon. :p I didn't choose the picture and I didn't choose the editing. But I know that if I had shot it with my 1D3 [a more traditional sports camera] rather than my 5D3, it wouldn't have been chosen because the IQ wouldn't have been high enough.


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davesrose
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Oct 08, 2014 18:03 |  #79

Thomas Campbell wrote in post #17202286 (external link)
Blame the low dynamic range on shooting with a Canon. :p I didn't choose the picture and I didn't choose the editing. But I know that if I had shot it with my 1D3 [a more traditional sports camera] rather than my 5D3, it wouldn't have been chosen because the IQ wouldn't have been high enough.

That's utter hogwash. I have a background in the graphic arts: I see an illustrator tracing over your image clear as day. You could have shot that image with a Rebel or Nikon D3100 and the final outcome would be the same IQ wise. The IQ of the image sensor was not why that image of yours was chosen. Scott Kelby had quite a few sports examples from the 7DmkII, and he only says it's a very good camera for being a crop (that it's no 1DX for high ISO, but still holds its own).


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Scoobert
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Oct 08, 2014 18:07 |  #80

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17202263 (external link)
Sports needs AF first and foremost, a super clean 25600 means little if AF cannot keep up, so in that situation AF is the most important thing.

I can shoot ISO 6400 on the 7D for sports pretty easily, I did that and marching band for years with great results. 12800 would be better, and the 7D2 should put me right there. There is no set ISO level needed for sports, each situation is different, and f2.8 at 1/1250 to 1/2000 simply depends on the lighting at hand.

IQ is just part of the equation and easily isn't the single large factor in photography for many people in many situations. IQ also isn't just ISO, yet another fallacy on the boards.

This is a shot my daughter took of the cheerleading squad last year. It prints out as a 8x10. The cheerleading squad leader loved it. It made it into their marketing material. The IQ isn't great according to standards here, but it didn't matter did it?

Not bad for an 11 year old with an SL1 at ISO 12800 with a kit lens... :)
QUOTED IMAGE



So this shot would not have been possible with the horrible 19 point focus system of the 7D/70D?

I just don't see where all those extra points are going to help the normal football dad.
Now birding guys, I totally get filling the frame with cross type focus points. But for the rest of the world I don't see the 65 points getting Joe blow any shots he couldn't have got with the 19 cross type from a 7D/70D

And I think its a great shot just for the reasons you listed




  
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Scoobert
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Oct 08, 2014 18:18 |  #81

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17202310 (external link)
Perhaps you need to go back and read my post, or look at the exif (hint: this was shot with the smallest cheapest DSLR Canon currently makes). I never said anything against the 7D/70D either.

I know TS, I wasn't implying anything like that.

Sorry for wording it that way. I was asking in a round about way that the big thing about this camera is its 65 point focus system. Which if it works will be awesome.

How would that help the normal football dad/soccer mom anymore then the current 19 point systems of the 7D/70D?

Basically asking your thoughts on that.




  
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Oct 08, 2014 18:22 |  #82

Scoobert wrote in post #17202315 (external link)
I know TS, I wasn't implying anything like that.

Sorry for wording it that way. I was asking in a round about way that the big thing about this camera is its 65 point focus system. Which if it works will be awesome.

How would that help the normal football dad/soccer mom anymore then the current 19 point systems of the 7D/70D?

Basically asking your thoughts on that.

Ah...

My points on the subject, having used 1D3s, 1D4, 5D3, and the 7D across 4 years now.
- 65 AF points spread across the entire frame allows for less recomposure, and you can now be very selective on where you place focus, in any orientation.
- A faster and more configurable AF system is great, you get to control much more of the AI Servo parameters than you do on the 7D.
- Lower light AF is great for when stadiums have lights turned down, and all you get are flood lights rolling over the crowd as they bring out each player individually
- Auto ISO with EC in manual mode with minimum shutter speed settings all the way up to 1/8000, I believe is spectacular and frees one up to worry less about ISO and more about the game
- 10fps has its place in a game, especially if you have a quick way to cull out the dups or worse images
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Thomas ­ Campbell
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Oct 08, 2014 18:24 |  #83

davesrose wrote in post #17202299 (external link)
That's utter hogwash. I have a background in the graphic arts: I see an illustrator tracing over your image clear as day. You could have shot that image with a Rebel or Nikon D3100 and the final outcome would be the same IQ wise.

There definitely was a graphic overlay, but the original shot I posted was cropped in from the original (shot on 400 2.8, which is my longest lens.) There wouldn't have been enough detail on a 1D3 to crop it in and use it for the cover. Because even though there is a graphic overlay, the image is still there and it was a pretty extreme crop.


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Oct 08, 2014 18:26 |  #84

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17202320 (external link)
Ah...

My points on the subject, having used 1D3s, 1D4, 5D3, and the 7D across 4 years now.
- 65 AF points spread across the entire frame allows for less recomposure, and you can now be very selective on where you place focus, in any orientation.
- A faster and more configurable AF system is great, you get to control much more of the AI Servo parameters than you do on the 7D.
- Lower light AF is great for when stadiums have lights turned down, and all you get are flood lights rolling over the crowd as they bring out each player individually
- Auto ISO with EC in manual mode with minimum shutter speed settings all the way up to 1/8000, I believe is spectacular and frees one up to worry less about ISO and more about the game
- 10fps has its place in a game, especially if you have a quick way to cull out the dups or worse images
- dual card slots allows me to run JPG to one and Raw to another so I can hand cards off and keep the raws

Thank You.




  
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Oct 08, 2014 18:31 |  #85

Scoobert wrote in post #17202315 (external link)
How would that help the normal football dad/soccer mom anymore then the current 19 point systems of the 7D/70D?

Basically asking your thoughts on that.

Hate to break the news to you, but now that the 7D2 is out, older cameras like the one you mentioned, were really designed for tripod still life. You can use them for the occasional posed portraits, or cat shots, just don't bring them to the field to be laughed at.


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Oct 08, 2014 18:40 |  #86

Thomas Campbell wrote in post #17202323 (external link)
There definitely was a graphic overlay, but the original shot I posted was cropped in from the original (shot on 400 2.8, which is my longest lens.) There wouldn't have been enough detail on a 1D3 to crop it in and use it for the cover. Because even though there is a graphic overlay, the image is still there and it was a pretty extreme crop.

No, there would be enough detail in such a low DR image. Seeing that it was clearly traced over (and details drawn in), You could crop into a grainy 1DmkI image and get the same effect. SI paid you for using the likeness of your image and then made a graphic illustration out of it. That you're claiming that a FF camera is the reason why your image would have been chosen (and neglecting that a good high ISO crop like the 7DmkII also gives you more reach) ....well that just shows you might be a competent wedding photographer, but others are showing better logic and experience when it comes to sports.


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Oct 08, 2014 18:47 |  #87

davesrose wrote in post #17202345 (external link)
No, there would be enough detail in such a low DR image. Seeing that it was clearly traced over (and details drawn in), You could crop into a grainy 1DmkI image and get the same effect. SI paid you for using the likeness of your image and then made a graphic illustration out of it. That you're claiming that a FF camera is the reason why your image would have been chosen (instead of a good high ISO crop like the 7DmkII that gives you more reach) ....well that just shows you might be a competent wedding photographer, but others are showing better logic and experience when it comes to sports.

You are just showing your lack of knowledge of the file based on a low res screen cap on a pathetic attempt to attack me.

I never said it was because it was a ff file, that was made up by you.

The photo is still there. It wasn't redrawn in after vectoring it. Of course I have the original files and you have a low res screen cap. Yeah, I wonder who knows better what happened to the file. :rolleyes:


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Oct 08, 2014 18:48 |  #88

Charlie wrote in post #17202329 (external link)
Hate to break the news to you, but now that the 7D2 is out, older cameras like the one you mentioned, were really designed for tripod still life. You can use them for the occasional posed portraits, or cat shots, just don't bring them to the field to be laughed at.

Whoa is me :(

I do like that camera...I think its just going to be out of my budget since I got the 70D just 10 months ago. Even though now that the focus works I love this camera.

But alas I am holding out for a mid level full frame between the 6D and 5diii. in a perfect world a 7D/70d focus in a 6D body with a 1/8000 shutter..... Or maybe nikon will come out with a D760 by the time I can afford it :)




  
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Oct 08, 2014 18:50 |  #89

Commenting on Kelby's video highly paid for dripping with sugar advertisement for the 7Dii, I'd already pre-ordered but after watching that sugar fest I might have not, thinking that the camera will stand on its own merits and not have to have thousands of laudable encomiums painted all over it. His vid was sneeky too; talk talk talk about the 70-200 and just barely slip in that the locker room shot was with a 400mm. He kept bragging on the 1.6 crop factor like it is magic when it just is what it is. Something about Kelby's personality as presented in the vid was a bit too slick for me too.
Just one viewer's opinion.


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Oct 08, 2014 19:01 |  #90

Personally most magazine covers that I see the size is small and noise in that size and print is not that big of a deal. MP of most current cameras are plenty. For me AF first then high ISO for action but I am not a pro shooter.

Canon does need to come up with better sensor to compete with other guys, no question about that.


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Scott Kelby's take on 7D mark II after real world use
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