Technique advice for Indoor Volleyball

My kid's gotten into Indoor Volleyball.

I took my first crack at it. Oie Ve. Acceptable for personal use but I could really use some advice.

First off; would another lens be better? I was thinking of using my 85 f1.8 next time.

Secondly; would my 7D be a better choice? Usually; ISO 3200 is just unacceptable on it but I wonder if AF might be better suited to the task.

Used: 5Dii 70-200 / f2.8 IS / Monopod / no flash / IS off / ISO 3200 / AV mode / this one is 173mm. There are 8 courts back-to-back separated by nets. I stood at the corner opposite of our team's side about 8' outside the back serving corner.

My issues:
- Needed f2.8 for adequate SS at ISO 3200. It usually picked 1/200. Still a little slow, but seems adequate.
- The problem with this is DOF is very shallow but because I'm shooting thru a net, I just can't get AF to work.
- The subject was usually quite blurry. PP Sharpening cleaned it up some, but only about 1/2 of my images were reasonable (for personal use), and only a few were as sharp as this one.
- Later, I went to F4.0 and SS 100-120. Trying to up my AF rate (wider DOF). It worked, but now they had too much motion blur unless perfectly timed.


Here's my best photo: (original here).

I've been shooting my daughter's soccer games of late, and my highest success rate has been keeping it on manual mode and using single point focus trying to hit the player's eye (or at least on the player i wanted. When I set AF on all points it would pick up on the closest player in the crowd naturally. I would think your lighting for indoor volleyball would be pretty constant allowing you to set/forget the shutter and aperture. I have also been setting it to auto ISO but with a pretty low max like 1600 to account for shade/sun contrast on the field.

The 7d is known to have faster and often more accurate AF in these types of conditions. Some say that the 5dmkii has slow AF, but it is also an issue of debate. Here is a link talking about it. https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=982935

The crop sensor camera like the 7D will have extra telephoto zoom from the crop. It also will have faster AF as all of the AF points are cross type, making for faster AF.Keep in mind thta the faster AF point is the center point.

As AudiOX said, you may have to be on single focus point, rather than an area focus select as is the case for most sports.

Have you tried AI Servo, rather than single shot focus mode?
Have you tried focusing on the legs, or is it just too busy with legs?
I would not try manual focus as you could never be quick enough.

F/4 would be ideal to be at due to a little more DOF. I am afraid that if you were at 1.8 on the 85mm, that you would just keep missing shots due to lack of DOF.You can somewhat test this by just opening the 70-20 to F/2.8 and test it out.

The 70-200 may be faster at focusing than the 85mm 1.8. If the weight of the lens is adding to the issue, then that is the time i would consider going to the 85mm. You do lose the IS, but the lighter weight should make up for that.

V-ball is tough to shoot, & I throw a lot away, but I usually get enough to make a poster for the team. I've used the 70-200 f/2.8, but generally prefer the 85 f/1.8 . Some threads that might help:
How I Shoot Volleyball
Read his comments in this thread: HS Volleyball

Lock your exposure in manual mode. The light will be consistent enough across the court that there is no need for auto. In av you run the risk of aberrant exposure because a dark or light jersey fills more of the screen. The 5D2 focuses fast enough in servo mode to handle volleyball. The 85 might be short but the 5DII allows for cropping

Every year when varsity sports start at my university I can with little problem get back into the groove for most sports. The exception is volleyball, timing and moving the camera to follow a player with the focus point close to the face and free of the net is key if possible. It usually takes me a couple of matches to get my timing back and I still chuck a lot. Practice, practice, practice. I never shoot VB below 1/800 sec as you are moving the camera and lens quickly as well as trying to capture a moving player/ball. Lenses are always wide open at 2.8. The face needs to be sharp, not so much the rest of the body. I find it helps to key on a player rather than watching the ball, say an outside hitter. The ball will get to them eventually and if you are following them with your camera, you will be more or less ready to grab some action.

This shot was up high about 2 court halves back but you should be able to get relatively the same framing from a 70-200 and 7D from standing at the end of the court.

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/pCBP​U9

Thanks for all the great advice. I think this will be a big improvement. I'll go to her practice Friday night and give it a test run.

Voaky999 - nice shot! How do you manage 1/800SS at f2.8 on 7D and get that clear? That aside; good advice on focusing.

Gonzogolf - Thanks for the Manual Exposure advice. Not sure why I was using AV but it may even be the cause of some of my AF delay. Re: 5Dii AF being decent, thanks for that reassurance. Lately; I've only used 7D for family outings due to pop-up flash but 5Dii for all sports and "serious" photography. I was just wondering if 7D AF would be superior for sports. FF has so much more light; it has a physics advantage the 7D doesn't.

I don't buy into the "extra reach" camp for crop cameras. It's just an in-lens crop, with significant sacrifice elsewhere.

PhotoGuy - Thank you for chiming in. Love your stuff and always solid advice. I'll check out your links tonight.

Micro5797 and AdioOX - I'll try the 85 f1.8 next time, and Servo mode.

AdioOX - Outdoor soccer is soo different; but good call on the Manual Exposure.

Voaky999 wrote in post #17211575
Every year when varsity sports start at my university I can with little problem get back into the groove for most sports. The exception is volleyball, timing and moving the camera to follow a player with the focus point close to the face and free of the net is key if possible. It usually takes me a couple of matches to get my timing back and I still chuck a lot. Practice, practice, practice. I never shoot VB below 1/800 sec as you are moving the camera and lens quickly as well as trying to capture a moving player/ball. Lenses are always wide open at 2.8. The face needs to be sharp, not so much the rest of the body. I find it helps to key on a player rather than watching the ball, say an outside hitter. The ball will get to them eventually and if you are following them with your camera, you will be more or less ready to grab some action.

This shot was up high about 2 court halves back but you should be able to get relatively the same framing from a 70-200 and 7D from standing at the end of the court.

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/pCBP​U9 A77V8220 by Don Voaklander, on Flickr

Hmmm. Is the 7D's AF Tracking features may be a big feature I'm missing - if it lives up to it's promise that is?

5Dii AF is decent, but tracking a subject that rapidly advances across the screen from shot to shot seems like what I'm missing (besides a few years of practice...).

The 7D focus system is superior for sports and if you were shooting baseball or soccer i would recommend it. But you are working on the ragged edge of your equipments capability. once you ,max out your aperture and you have to keep the shutter speed high enough to stop motion the only place you have left to gain an edge is ISO. The 5DII is going to perform better in that regard. Volleyball moves in reasonably predictable ways so its less of a challenge for the AF system.

I have shot some sports, but never volleyball. I learned a lot from this thread/links. Now i know what i will encounter for when the opportunity arises. Thanks!

Voaky999 wrote in post #17211575
Every year when varsity sports start at my university I can with little problem get back into the groove for most sports. The exception is volleyball, timing and moving the camera to follow a player with the focus point close to the face and free of the net is key if possible. It usually takes me a couple of matches to get my timing back and I still chuck a lot. Practice, practice, practice. I never shoot VB below 1/800 sec as you are moving the camera and lens quickly as well as trying to capture a moving player/ball. Lenses are always wide open at 2.8. The face needs to be sharp, not so much the rest of the body. I find it helps to key on a player rather than watching the ball, say an outside hitter. The ball will get to them eventually and if you are following them with your camera, you will be more or less ready to grab some action.

This shot was up high about 2 court halves back but you should be able to get relatively the same framing from a 70-200 and 7D from standing at the end of the court.

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/pCBP​U9 A77V8220 by Don Voaklander, on Flickr

Sorry, this was taken with a 1Dx as a possible composition to try for. Here is an older one of mine taken from end court with a 7D and 70-200/2.8 @ ISO 3200

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/bwo7​x4

I'm shooting with a 6D and these days a 70-200mm 2.8 non-IS.

I shoot in manual at 1/400, 2.8, and auto-ISO (max 12800)

I find that as my Daughter progresses in age, 7th grade now, that the lighting in the gyms get better and better. Here a couple that were shot JPG (RAW are too big and too much PP)

Also I take a pic of the lights and do a custom WB adjustment as auto WB is not reliable in these gyms. I am using partial metering mode too.

Camera Canon EOS 6D
Exposure 0.003 sec (1/400)
Aperture f/3.2
Focal Length 100 mm
ISO Speed 2000

IMAGE LINK: https://www.flickr.com …22123017@N08/15​553326565/

IMAGE LINK: https://www.flickr.com …22123017@N08/15​529623936/

IMAGE LINK: https://www.flickr.com …22123017@N08/15​367702240/

IMAGE LINK: https://www.flickr.com …22123017@N08/15​550651111/

Now it's a different lighting setup where the YMCA plays, and I have to bump up the Max ISO to 12800 and normally falls right around 6400.

I used to shoot with a 60D and a 17-55mm 2.8 and could not come close to these. I am convinced that the extra 30% of light (APC vs FF) and the 6D's high ISO capabilties have made these types of shots possible.

Dave

Camera Canon EOS 6D
Exposure 0.003 sec (1/400)
Aperture f/2.8
Focal Length 200 mm
ISO Speed 6400

IMAGE LINK: https://www.flickr.com …22123017@N08/15​390620868/

IMAGE LINK: https://www.flickr.com …22123017@N08/15​391130440/

The white balance in sports can be tricky because, depending on the lights, they cycle through different colors. In a series of a single play, I can capture shots that range from too blue to too red. This doesn't matter if I'm using auto white balance or manually set WB.

A fellow shooter told me that when he notices the reddish color on the shots, he immediately culls them out. His camera (a Nikon) back focuses on the red cycle of light.

Voaky999 offered great advice!

ISO 12800, nice! I've never tried pushing my 5Dii to 6400. Maybe that'll help, although my issues center more around AF (and lack of experience I'm sure). Manual WB and Manual Exposure should help trim the shutter-lag as well - less decisions for the camera to make.

drveede76 - your DOF seems pretty deep for f2.8 and 3.2 on FF.

Voaky999 - what an improvement the 1Dx makes! I'm sure the venue lighting plays a big role in that too.