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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 21 Oct 2014 (Tuesday) 17:23
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Goodbye DSLR Nikon, Hello Mirrorless Sony

 
Tom ­ Reichner
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Oct 23, 2014 10:42 |  #61

Thomas Campbell wrote in post #17229043 (external link)
Love your work, Tom.

Thanks!


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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JeffreyG
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Oct 23, 2014 15:08 |  #62

Tom Reichner wrote in post #17229003 (external link)
I am sick of people making blanket statements about how mirrorless systems are so much better than DSLRs. People who feel this way should qualify their statements.

A whole lot of people think that what they shoot, everyone shoots.

I don't know why, but the Sony system seems to get more of a pass on this than most others. People just want to gloss over the limitations or wave it off as only a problem for a niche.

You know, the Leica M9 is an incredible mirrorless camera too, but people seem less likely to overlook the fact that it cannot be used with lenses longer than 135mm and that it is purely MF. Maybe it's the price.


My personal stuff:http://www.flickr.com/​photos/jngirbach/sets/ (external link)
I use a Canon 5DIII and a Sony A7rIII

  
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smythie
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Oct 25, 2014 05:41 |  #63

Sony does have an A mount 500/4 but you'd need to use an adaptor on an E mount body. I've played with one on an A7r (can't remember which adaptor) in a shop months ago and it focused pretty quickly. I doubt it would be as quick as the equivalent on a Canon or Nikon pro body though. Don't know how much quicker it would be on an A6000 or A77mk2 (which the 500/4 would mount on natively). Looks like they have a 300/2.8 A mount too


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johnf3f
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Oct 25, 2014 14:47 |  #64

smythie wrote in post #17232136 (external link)
Sony does have an A mount 500/4 but you'd need to use an adaptor on an E mount body. I've played with one on an A7r (can't remember which adaptor) in a shop months ago and it focused pretty quickly. I doubt it would be as quick as the equivalent on a Canon or Nikon pro body though. Don't know how much quicker it would be on an A6000 or A77mk2 (which the 500/4 would mount on natively). Looks like they have a 300/2.8 A mount too

Have you seen the price of the Sony 500 F4? Here, in the UK, I bought a new Canon 1DX a new Canon 300 F4 L IS and a mintish Canon 800 F5.6 L IS for a couple of quid less! This is one of the many reasons the Sony system is impractical for many photographers.


Life is for living, cameras are to capture it (one day I will learn how!).

  
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DC ­ Fan
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Oct 25, 2014 15:31 |  #65

JeffreyG wrote in post #17229512 (external link)
A whole lot of people think that what they shoot, everyone shoots.

I don't know why, but the Sony system seems to get more of a pass on this than most others. People just want to gloss over the limitations or wave it off as only a problem for a niche.

You know, the Leica M9 is an incredible mirrorless camera too, but people seem less likely to overlook the fact that it cannot be used with lenses longer than 135mm and that it is purely MF. Maybe it's the price.

One of the oddities of this forum - and perhaps among some camera owners - is that there appears to be little understanding of the interdependence of framing, distance and focal lengths.

That lack of understanding is demonstrated in the frequent "what lens should I buy" threads, when it's clear the person has not carefully considered the subjects to be photographed, how tightly the subjects will be framed, or how close the camera will be to the subject.

That situation also may be a factor in the arguments over mirrorless cameras, where the mirrorless advocates can't understand the need for a telephoto lens because they've never used one.

Call it an extension of the old teaching practice where students were told to only use a 50mm lens which was a "normal" lens in the 35mm film era. When you're dealing with those who have never been presented with a situation where a usefully framed image from a 50mm lens would lead to being run over by a speeding race car, an athlete or animal, you're not going to get much sympathy, especially in an environment where some forum members see people with cameras and have a barely controllable compulsion to control what those people do with their cameras.

Add the disdain that some camera owners have for those who feel a compulsion to capture a distant or moving subject with a closely framed image, along with those who feel a 70-200mm f/2.8 lens is uncomfortably "large," and you have the heart of the argument.




  
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Lesmore
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Oct 25, 2014 16:11 |  #66

You get to a certain level of camera ...say both FF and ASP-C....and it's more about the photographer than the camera.

I'm talking about top quality such as Canon 7D, 5D3, Nikon D750/810/7100, Pentax K-3/645Z, Sony....etc....you get the idea.

I've been photographing for many years...some of it...way back...professionally.

Things I have learned, include....don't think for a moment that somehow your photography will improve...just because you want to get the latest and greatest.

When I see folks...say.... who trade their 5D3 in on a D 810/ equipment....or vice versa...I wonder....is that a good business decision....or even a rational personal preference decision ?

Get to know how to use the equipment you have, be careful to begin with that you select really good lenses for your interest or type of business.

Then work at developing your skill...no matter how long you have been at it.




  
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johnf3f
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Oct 25, 2014 16:55 |  #67

Interesting thoughts DC Fan and Lesmore!
I have looked long and hard at the Sony A7 & A7R cameras and there are aspects of them that I like, namely they are light and have great sensors. My problem with them is that they would only be of any use to me for landscape work whereas something like a 6D doesn't weigh a huge amount more and can serve as a passable backup to my 1DX for wildlife - which is my main pursuit.
For others priorities will be different but, for me, the Sony A series are pretty much useless - pity. The whole advantage of (even a fairly basic SLR) is it's versatility and viewfinder, the Sony's fall down here.


Life is for living, cameras are to capture it (one day I will learn how!).

  
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smythie
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Oct 25, 2014 17:01 |  #68

johnf3f wrote in post #17232668 (external link)
Have you seen the price of the Sony 500 F4? Here, in the UK, I bought a new Canon 1DX a new Canon 300 F4 L IS and a mintish Canon 800 F5.6 L IS for a couple of quid less! This is one of the many reasons the Sony system is impractical for many photographers.

*shrug* pricing here in Aus at a retailer I regularly haunt has the Sony at $13,225, the Canon at $11,107 and the Nikon at $11,699. Yep, it's more expensive (not that much so though) but my point was that Sony did have telephotos contrary to the earlier statement that implied they didn't have anything longer than 200mm


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johnf3f
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Oct 25, 2014 18:15 |  #69

smythie wrote in post #17232850 (external link)
*shrug* pricing here in Aus at a retailer I regularly haunt has the Sony at $13,225, the Canon at $11,107 and the Nikon at $11,699. Yep, it's more expensive (not that much so though) but my point was that Sony did have telephotos contrary to the earlier statement that implied they didn't have anything longer than 200mm

To be fair check my post again, the Canon 800mm F5.6 L IS was a used example. Nevertheless the Sony 500 F4 is around 10K GBP over here which is simply ridiculous for a 500mm lens that doesn't match a a 5.8K Nikon let alone the Canon 500 Mk2 at 7K.
Sony do make a couple of long lenses but they are getting a bit long in the tooth and grossly overpriced.


Life is for living, cameras are to capture it (one day I will learn how!).

  
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maximus_73
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Oct 25, 2014 20:46 |  #70

waterrockets wrote in post #17227034 (external link)
Yeah, show me a mirrorless that nails this shot every time:

QUOTED IMAGE

Sorry, Fujifilm X-T1(Yes it is a mirrorless camera) cannot take 15 MPH moving subjects, but it can only take 80 mph+ moving subjects. You want a proof? here you go:

IMAGE: http://www.brianwhite.com.au/wp-content/uploads/140601-FujiTest-29.jpg

Cameras: Canon EOS M, FujiFilm X-T1| Lenses: FD 50mm 1.4, Fujinon 23mm 1.4, Fujinon 56 1.2, Zeiss 32mm 1.8

  
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Tom ­ Reichner
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Oct 25, 2014 21:06 |  #71

maximus_73 wrote in post #17233103 (external link)
Sorry, Fujifilm X-T1(Yes it is a mirrorless camera) cannot take 15 MPH moving subjects, but it can only take 80 mph+ moving subjects. You want a proof? here you go:

A completely different situation than what WaterRockets presented. In fact, I would say that the motorbike example is not a difficult focusing situation at all; the bike is relatively small in the frame, and is moving horizontally - perpendicular to the shooter's line of sight. heck, one could take a cheap point & shoot, pre-focus on the middle of the track, and nail focus on every pass. Not an AF challenge at all. (And yes, I do realize that the rider is on a slight curve, but that really does not make a difference when you can just pre-focus on one part of a track and wait 'till the motorbike gets there).

The swimming image presented by WaterRockets is truly an AF challenge. The subject is big in the frame and moving towards the camera. Add to that the fact that the contrast between the subject and the object surrounding the subject (the water) is continually changing as the swimmers head bobs up and down, above the water's surface, then below the water's surface, interrupted by the transitional period when the emergence/submergence of the head causes splashing, which introduces yet a different, additional change in the degree of relative contrast.

The two scenarios are so completely different - one a huge AF challenge and one a very easy AF situation - that it surprises me that anyone would compare them to each other in an attempt to make a point about the AF abilities of any particular items of gear.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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smythie
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Oct 25, 2014 21:10 |  #72

that's not a particularly difficult shot for an auto focus system to get right: the bike isn't moving towards or away at any great rate (maybe 1mph, max) and the photographer and camera have a decent amount of time to acquire and follow the bike. Getting a sharp result there is more about getting your panning right.

have a read of his comments describing the difficulty of that butterfly shot for the camera

-edit- I see I'm too slow


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waterrockets
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Oct 25, 2014 23:14 |  #73

maximus_73 wrote in post #17233103 (external link)
Sorry, Fujifilm X-T1(Yes it is a mirrorless camera) cannot take 15 MPH moving subjects, but it can only take 80 mph+ moving subjects. You want a proof? here you go:

Yeah, as said above, drop by a pool and take my shot above with a decent Masters swimmer with the X-T1.


1D MkIV | 1D MkIII | 550D w/grip & ML| EF 70-200mm f2.8L| EF 24-105mm f4L IS | Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS | Samyang 14mm f/2.8 IF ED UMC | 430EXii | EF 50mm f1.8

  
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elitejp
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Oct 26, 2014 03:20 as a reply to  @ waterrockets's post |  #74

yawn...again talking about telephotos that 99%of people will never own and af situations that are hard for any system. I dare day that i can pick a camera and lens from anyone of these systems that would suck for your type of shooting but i could also pick a camera and lens combo from anyone of these systems that would work great.


6D; canon 85mm 1.8, Tamron 24-70mm VC, Canon 135L Canon 70-200L is ii

  
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Tom ­ Reichner
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Oct 26, 2014 09:16 |  #75

elitejp wrote in post #17233447 (external link)
. . . i can pick a camera and lens from anyone of these systems that would suck for your type of shooting but i could also pick a camera and lens combo from anyone of these systems that would work great.

Well, I know that you can pick a camera from a mirrorless system that would suck for birds in flight, downhill skiing, etc - but can you really pick one that would work great for that type of photography? I mean, that's what you said - one from any system that would work great. "Great" is really asking for a lot.

If what you said is true, then please tell us what mirrorless system is actually great for the types of photography where you need to track subjects that are moving very quickly and erratically, and where you need to shoot a rapid frame rate and get almost all of the frames in focus (because one perfect frame from each sequence is not enough for those submitting to wire services, multiple stock agencies, etc).

I really wish that the claim you made is true, but I suspect that you simply made that statement without really thinking it thru completely.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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Goodbye DSLR Nikon, Hello Mirrorless Sony
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