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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 21 Oct 2014 (Tuesday) 17:23
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Goodbye DSLR Nikon, Hello Mirrorless Sony

 
DC ­ Fan
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Oct 27, 2014 14:24 |  #91

John wrote in post #17235706 (external link)
Haven't been keeping up with the mirrorless market at all, so accepting the risk of sounding like a complete newb:

Are there any photo blogs of any photographers that is using mirrorless for action/sports?

Not from blogs, but from watching people who attend real events where cameras are accepted and tolerated, there's an interesting pattern.

From a couple of major air shows, a big regional late model stock race, a national amateur road race, several parades and a state championship horse show, the most frequently seen cameras have been on smart phones and tablets.

Then there's a variety of compact digital cameras, followed by DSLR's, usually with an entry-level "kit" lens in the 18-55mm range. In all the events I've attended since th start of spring, I've seen no more than two mirrorless cameras.

Now I don't attend every camera-friendly event in this area and what I notice is no more than anecdotal, but I've seen nothing to indicate there's any substantial move to mirrorless.

I'll wager a guess why that's happening. Switching from one camera type is currently an act of faith, since the number of specialized camera and electronics stores most likely to sell mirrorless cameras has been declining. That's something demonstrated by the number of people who ask about camera capabilities in forums such as this rather than learning first-hand at the sort of brick and mortar stores increasingly held in disdain in an online era.

Just being told a substantial camera purchase is desirable may not be enough to get a person to buy on. More places to actually test and try mirrorless cameras will be needed, along with more aggressive marketing.




  
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Reservoir ­ Dog
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Oct 27, 2014 21:20 |  #92

05Xrunner wrote in post #17235704 (external link)
but thats an A mount not E mount..Sigma makes only 3 E mount lenses. I think its 20,30,60mm primes

Yes .... there is something very silly about those different mounts in the same brand manufacturer ((even Canon with it's M mount :( )


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smythie
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Oct 28, 2014 01:40 as a reply to  @ Reservoir Dog's post |  #93

The A mount (Sony) and EF mount have fairly long flange distances for use on a small body with no mirror.


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JeffreyG
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Oct 28, 2014 05:17 |  #94

Reservoir Dog wrote in post #17236734 (external link)
Yes .... there is something very silly about those different mounts in the same brand manufacturer ((even Canon with it's M mount :( )

It's not silly, it's what is needed for the plausible flange distances. The problem for Sony is that they were already lacking in lenses for their A-mount as compared to Canon and Nikon when they tripled their problem with two additional mounts.

To be a serious contender for the kinds of people buying a camera like a 7D2, 6D, 5D3 or 1DX you need to have a competitive body and a fairly complete lens line. Sony needs to decide which kinds of bodies they are going to position against the higher end Canon and Nikon dSLRs and then they need to work like hell to fill out the lens line for that mount.

I doubt they can do it in three mounts all at once.


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JeffreyG
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Oct 28, 2014 05:23 |  #95

DC Fan wrote in post #17236022 (external link)
I'll wager a guess why that's happening. Switching from one camera type is currently an act of faith, since the number of specialized camera and electronics stores most likely to sell mirrorless cameras has been declining. That's something demonstrated by the number of people who ask about camera capabilities in forums such as this rather than learning first-hand at the sort of brick and mortar stores increasingly held in disdain in an online era.

I used to think the prevalence of entry-level dSLRs in the hands of parents and casual shooters represented a simple lack of choices in alternatives. When mirrorless cameras came along, I assumed these would take over at least the entry level dSLR market.

So as friends and acquaintances asked me for camera advice, I directed all of them to take a look at mirrorless options and suggested what seemed to be the best available at the time. As a general rule, all of them checked out the mirrorless cameras, tried them out and then bought entry level dSLR kits instead.

The feedback I got was that the dSLRs seemed to offer better features at a given price point, and they all recognized the AF limitations of the mirrorless offerings.

Now maybe the AF situation and feature disparity is getting better with the most recent mirrorless. Something along that line has to happen to entice the entry level buyers. And then you need the complete lens line (as I mentioned previous post) to entice the more advanced buyers.


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bobbyz
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Oct 28, 2014 09:25 |  #96

JeffreyG wrote in post #17237143 (external link)
I used to think the prevalence of entry-level dSLRs in the hands of parents and casual shooters represented a simple lack of choices in alternatives. When mirrorless cameras came along, I assumed these would take over at least the entry level dSLR market.

So as friends and acquaintances asked me for camera advice, I directed all of them to take a look at mirrorless options and suggested what seemed to be the best available at the time. As a general rule, all of them checked out the mirrorless cameras, tried them out and then bought entry level dSLR kits instead.

The feedback I got was that the dSLRs seemed to offer better features at a given price point, and they all recognized the AF limitations of the mirrorless offerings.

Now maybe the AF situation and feature disparity is getting better with the most recent mirrorless. Something along that line has to happen to entice the entry level buyers. And then you need the complete lens line (as I mentioned previous post) to entice the more advanced buyers.

Not sure which mirrorless they are trying but to me it is price more than anything else. You walk into coscto or any retailer you going to see rebel or even 60d/70d etc with kit lens at very competitive prices. Sony FF mirroless is more than 7d2. Fuji XT-1 is almost same as 6d if you pick 6d refurb or on sale. Panasonic GH4 is lot more. Probably only leaves Olympus, I am not sure how much they cost.

Sony to me so far is more like a one trick pony and that trick is their sensor. So far nobody got something like it but I am hoping soon others would. Fuji is at least releasing nicer lenses. Currently I am using 35mm f1.4 and 23mm f1.4 and both seem as good as my L glass, better in some things like aperture rings. AF will improve and for day to day stuff is good. I was complaining about 6d and 35L or the sigma 35mm f1.4 not being able to keep up when using off center AF points when taking pictures of my kids. Now using XT-1 and 23mm f1.4 or even slower 35mm f1.4, I have more keepers. I still need to learn how to use AI servo as it is totally different on Fuji and has some ways to go before it matches good dSLRs.


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Fernando
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Oct 28, 2014 09:28 |  #97

bobbyz wrote in post #17237449 (external link)
Not sure which mirrorless they are trying but to me it is price more than anything else. You walk into coscto or any retailer you going to see rebel or even 60d/70d etc with kit lens at very competitive prices. Sony FF mirroless is more than 7d2. Fuji XT-1 is almost same as 6d if you pick 6d refurb or on sale. Panasonic GH4 is lot more. Probably only leaves Olympus, I am not sure how much they cost.

This 100%. When I extol the virtues of my X-T1 to people asking for purchasing advice I remind them that you seriously need to be about $3K in before you have an even mildly flexible system. Yes, you can go body and 18-135 (and it's a great lens) for about $2K but I personally needed/wanted faster glass. It didn't take long to get to $4K and I still have another $2500 in my cart...and that's before the long zoom is even released.


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waterrockets
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Oct 28, 2014 09:29 |  #98

smythie wrote in post #17235061 (external link)
From what I understand, it was that sort of situation which got the 1d3 all confused early on in its life

Yep. 1D3 is past that issue now.


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plasticmotif
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Oct 28, 2014 12:37 |  #99

All my favorite landscape shooters are moving to A7rs. That says something.

The AF isn't quite there yet, but it will get there. So will their lens line-ups.

I was an avid Sony shooter for a while, but I'm moving back to Canon for one reason only. The MP-E 65. Sony mirrorless still don't have simple flash things like off camera cords. Currently you have to use wireless triggers with a special shoe to get a flash to trigger off camera. No cord is available. That's pretty dumb for wedding/macro shooters.

Sony makes the best sensors. Being able to use any lens ever made on the system is very attractive to some shooters.


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David ­ Arbogast
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Oct 28, 2014 13:25 |  #100

plasticmotif wrote in post #17237776 (external link)
All my favorite landscape shooters are moving to A7rs. That says something.

It just says you don't have that many favorite landscape shooters. ;) Are any of your favorite landscape shooters "moving to a7Rs" from Nikon D800 and/or D810's? I can see Canon shooters making the move - it's nice to be able to use Canon lenses on a 36MP Sony sensor, but why would Nikon shooters do so, except for a slight weight advantage of the a7R vs D810?


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Charlie
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Oct 28, 2014 13:58 |  #101

David Arbogast wrote in post #17237870 (external link)
It just says you don't have that many favorite landscape shooters. ;) Are any of your favorite landscape shooters "moving to a7Rs" from Nikon D800 and/or D810's? I can see Canon shooters making the move - it's nice to be able to use Canon lenses on a 36MP Sony sensor, but why would Nikon shooters do so, except for a slight weight advantage of the a7R vs D810?

to adapt canon lenses :p


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David ­ Arbogast
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Oct 28, 2014 14:13 |  #102

Charlie wrote in post #17237935 (external link)
to adapt canon lenses :p

With consideration to TS-E 17mm and 24mm II, I can actually imagine some Nikon landscape shooters going with a7Rs for that reason. :) Otherwise, Nikon landscapers are better served with Nikon lenses (like 14-24mm) or Nikon-mount Zeiss primes (like 15 and 21mm).


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plasticmotif
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Oct 28, 2014 14:16 |  #103

Charlie wrote in post #17237935 (external link)
to adapt canon lenses :p

Exactly. Fred Miranda moved, Andreas Resch moved, dozens of others on FM that I follow moved.

I'd gladly be shooting an A7r if it weren't for Sony's crappy flash support.


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David ­ Arbogast
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Oct 28, 2014 14:43 |  #104

plasticmotif wrote in post #17237966 (external link)
Exactly. Fred Miranda moved, Andreas Resch moved, dozens of others on FM that I follow moved.

I'd gladly be shooting an A7r if it weren't for Sony's crappy flash support.

So not even one single "favorite landscape shooter" is staying with Nikon and not "moving to a7Rs"? Wow, guess I've got the absolute best landscape camera then.

I'm not trying to be difficult, I just have the feeling that as wonderful as the a7R is, it is still a slightly compromised solution for landscapes (albeit a great form-factor advantage for backpackers). The native lenses aren't the absolute best, and adapting lenses poses a measure of compromise; a compromise well-delineated by Roger Cicala and on the FM forums including Fred Miranda himself. And then there is the issue of compressed RAW files with the a7R. I just feel that for landscape pros the D810 represents the best solution for 35mm sensor cameras. In my perfect world, I would own both (a7R for my Canon-mount lenses and D810 for Nikon-mount lenses).


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Oct 28, 2014 15:02 |  #105

What is the problem with compressed raw files? I haven't seen a single camera shooting raw that doesn't apply some form of compression to their files (if they didn't compress than every single file would have an absolutely identical size.)


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Goodbye DSLR Nikon, Hello Mirrorless Sony
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