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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 21 Oct 2014 (Tuesday) 17:23
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Goodbye DSLR Nikon, Hello Mirrorless Sony

 
David ­ Arbogast
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Oct 28, 2014 15:23 |  #106

Luckless wrote in post #17238036 (external link)
What is the problem with compressed raw files? I haven't seen a single camera shooting raw that doesn't apply some form of compression to their files (if they didn't compress than every single file would have an absolutely identical size.)

First, it is a very very minor issue. That said, the Sony Raw uses a lossy compression.There are plenty of discussions to be found on it. Here is one: http://www.fredmiranda​.com/forum/topic/12675​11/0 (external link)

On this first page Fred Miranda wrote:

It would be great if Sony provided the uncompressed option but it's unlikely we will see compression artifacts in the majority of our images.
I was able to replicate a situation where the compression is visible. When shooting a high contrast subject where the shadows are very close to pure black. When trying to recover the shadows, artifacts become very apparent.
Fred


David | Flickr (external link)
Sony α7R II | CV 12mm, FE 12-24mm, Loxia 21mm, Loxia 35mm, Sigma 35mm F/1.2, Loxia 85mm, Batis 85mm, Batis 135mm

  
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Mark0159
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Oct 29, 2014 04:06 |  #107

This guy doesn't know what he's going on about most of the time.

At the "6:20" mark he says that pro's like to intimidate other photographers that they use by using the "big cameras" please, if you are a pro photographer you care more about the photograph than the gear. Any good photographer will say it's not the camera is the person behind it. The only ones that care are the ones that know nothing about photography and they are the ones you don't listen too.

Even tho it's not in his list, shot in kelvin, does he mean set custom white balance? That’s what I am guessing he's talking about. I can set any custom WB (normally measured in kelvin) on my 6D. I'm sure my 10D could do it and I defiantly knew that the 40D could.

Number 1, the price. Looking at local NZ pricing the cameras are just the same price if not more than the 6D when I brought that new. Lenses aren't that much cheaper. For where he lives it could be cheaper so that's fine.

2, weight. I don't have a problem with the 6D. I could shoot for hours with the camera. I don't make money with the camera so I'm not using it all day. But I can understand this. If you’re doing a lot of travelling then yea keep weight down can help. But I never thought that weight stunts my creative flow. Hmmm perhaps I should go to the gym.

3, EVF. This I can understand. I haven't used an EVF on a camera but the fact that I'm looking at screen means that I can get more info and more features. Also means I see less of the photo but all that info is helpful.

4, Tilt Screen. I love this idea, I wish more cameras had them. I never liked the fact that all my DSLR cameras that I ever had never had them. Crazy stuff I think. You may not use it but doing macro then hell yea. I would use it all the time. Do I change cameras because of it? Hmmm possible depends on the cost. But his comments about pro's like to "poo poo" about them is laughable.

5, focusing peaking and zebra. Well yea I would like better focusing on my DSLR when using manual lenses. My camera does have the ability to show highlights by flashing the parts out when in preview. Isn’t that the same thing? Just because I don't get stripes to show it doesn't make it any less valuable. Never heard a pro say "you should be able to pick it out with your eyes"

6, memory card compatibility, so far never wanted to take my memory cards from one camera to another. Once finished I will down the images to my computer. If unable too I will continue to shoot until the card is full and then use a card I know is empty. If photography is your life then you should know what's on your cards. Cards are cheap enough that this shouldn't be an issue.

7 and 8, upload to my phone, guess what I can do that too on my DinosaurSLR camera. Canon cameras have had Wi-Fi adaptors for a while now. I can control my settings on my phone too. Go figure. It’s not amazing, its technology buddy and this is how it works. Any pro photographer cares about his ability to give their customers the right photo should be learning the tech the gear can do.

9, cross brand compatibility, yep can do that on my canon camera too. Got an adaptor to put my old film Olympus 35mm lens on my 6D. And by using the internet I can see plenty of other people doing the same thing.

10, expanded focus, can do that in live view.

Not a number but 4K video, that's only important if you do video. Nikon using Sony sensors. So what. Apple uses Samsung to make its screens for iPads does that mean Samsung tablets are better? While Nikon uses Sony sensors they use their own processing and software to turn the light in to an image. The sensor is only part of the process that goes in to the final result, not the end all.

Interesting enough there was no talk about DR or ISO range or the ability of the camera to lock in focus in low light. The some of the features listed can be found in cameras that are in the market today.
There are some valued points like taking a DinosaurSLR to areas where it can get stolen because it looks like a "pro" camera and this does have some merit. But also looking like someone that's got money is also not going to help either. And the weight issue I can understand esp. when travelling.

But if you’re making money from photography for a living it doesn't matter what gear you use. Some use Nikon, canon, Sony or even Leica. Those that care know nothing about photography. Shoot with what you got, either way it's that camera in your hand that gives you the power to capture that shot.

But if you’re going to make some points about why change make them good ones. Not ones that shows a lack of understanding about the features of other cameras.


Mark
https://www.flickr.com​/photos/52782633@N04 (external link)
Canon EOS 6D | Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 17-40mm f/4L USM, EF 50mm f/1.4 USM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM | Tamron SP 35mm F1.8 Di VC USD | Canon Speedlite 550EX -|- Film | Canon EOS 3 | Olympus OM2 | Zuiko 35mm f2

  
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Dragoro
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Oct 29, 2014 10:39 |  #108

I used to use mirrorless, but switched back to dslrs. Mirrorless are nice but are limited by the lenses available, unless you want to use clumsy adapters, plus the bigger lenses made the mirrorless cameras front heavy and unbalanced. Plus I do a lot of HDR, and mirrorless systems, for what ever reason, are limited in the number and spacing of the shots in the brackets. Also, once you start using other lenses, like those meant for nikon or canon, it kinda ruins the idea of having a lighter system to carry around.


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Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 Di VC USD
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Charlie
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Oct 29, 2014 10:58 |  #109

Dragoro wrote in post #17239704 (external link)
I used to use mirrorless, but switched back to dslrs. Mirrorless are nice but are limited by the lenses available, unless you want to use clumsy adapters, plus the bigger lenses made the mirrorless cameras front heavy and unbalanced. Plus I do a lot of HDR, and mirrorless systems, for what ever reason, are limited in the number and spacing of the shots in the brackets. Also, once you start using other lenses, like those meant for nikon or canon, it kinda ruins the idea of having a lighter system to carry around.

It certainly takes away some advantage if you are adapting large lenses, but there are plenty of good smaller lenses if you choose. It's really up to your imagination. I was shooting fast primes and a small FF DSLR with the 6D (still use it), but the sony package I assembled is considerably smaller with no compromises other than AF.

Bracketing +-2 covers just about 99% of all scenarios, I have both canon and sony setup the same way.


Sony A7riii/A9 - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - SY 24/2.8 - FE 28/2 - FE 35/2.8 - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8 - Tamron 17-28/2.8 - 28-75/2.8 RXD, 70-200/2.8 VC

  
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Dragoro
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Oct 29, 2014 12:09 |  #110

Charlie wrote in post #17239746 (external link)
It certainly takes away some advantage if you are adapting large lenses, but there are plenty of good smaller lenses if you choose. It's really up to your imagination. I was shooting fast primes and a small FF DSLR with the 6D (still use it), but the sony package I assembled is considerably smaller with no compromises other than AF.

Bracketing +-2 covers just about 99% of all scenarios, I have both canon and sony setup the same way.


There are some OK native lenses, but nothing great.


Nikon D810:
Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8G AF-S ED LENS
Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 Di VC USD
Benjamin Timmins Photography (external link)

  
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Tom ­ Reichner
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Oct 30, 2014 00:23 |  #111

Dragoro wrote in post #17239880 (external link)
There are some OK native lenses, but nothing great.

But they are all just "normal" lenses, for typical photography.

The dedicated lens lineups (if you can call them lineups) completely ignore niches. Want to shoot with a lens made for your mirrorless camera, without having to use an adaptor? Then forget about true (1:1) macro photography. Forget about tilt/shift for architectural and product work. Forget about long supertelephotos (500mm & beyond) for bird, wildlife, and sports work. Basically forget about any specialized professional applications.

The vast majority of images that are actually being put to real public use and put squarely into the public eye via magazines, billboards, product packaging and labels, advertisements, etc - are still being made with DSLRs . . . yet some people say that DSLRs are "dinosaurs", and that their time has passed. Those kinds of statements are simply incorrect.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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bobbyz
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Oct 30, 2014 10:35 |  #112

Tom Reichner wrote in post #17241102 (external link)
But they are all just "normal" lenses, for typical photography.

The dedicated lens lineups (if you can call them lineups) completely ignore niches. Want to shoot with a lens made for your mirrorless camera, without having to use an adaptor? Then forget about true (1:1) macro photography. Forget about tilt/shift for architectural and product work. Forget about long supertelephotos (500mm & beyond) for bird, wildlife, and sports work. Basically forget about any specialized professional applications.

The vast majority of images that are actually being put to real public use and put squarely into the public eye via magazines, billboards, product packaging and labels, advertisements, etc - are still being made with DSLRs . . . yet some people say that DSLRs are "dinosaurs", and that their time has passed. Those kinds of statements are simply incorrect.

I thought most were with MF gear.:)


5dmk3, 35L, 85L II, 300mm f2.8 IS I, 400mm f5.6
Fuji XT-1, 14mm f2.8, 23mm f1.4, 35mm f1.4, 56mm f1.2, 90mm f2, 50-140mm f2.8

  
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DC ­ Fan
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Oct 30, 2014 11:41 |  #113

bobbyz wrote in post #17241721 (external link)
I thought most were with MF gear.:)

Just to be pedantic, the most likely medium format cameras to be used nowadays are digital single lens reflex units from Hasselblad (external link), Mamiya (external link) and Phase One (external link).

The single lens reflex design has never been limited just to cameras that use 35mm film or their successors. Nearly all Hasselblads (external link) have been single lens reflex cameras.




  
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brettjrob
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Oct 30, 2014 12:03 |  #114

I'm not opposed to mirrorless at all, since I generally shoot subjects which don't require AF.

But I simply don't understand the fascination with "lighter and thinner" when the lenses will always be the limiting factor in that regard. If I have to carry around a 70-200 in my bag, regardless of body, replacing my D610 with an a7R just isn't going to make that big of a difference. Granted, the body+lens combo would be noticeably lighter in the hand for a lot of wide-angle and standard lenses. But not enough to make me want to switch until some of the drawbacks of the Sony mirrorless system (battery life, lack of accessories, lack of native lenses) are remedied.

And don't get me started on MFT and how so many of its proponents want to claim "near FF" image quality... in defiance of the laws of physics.


Nikon D610, D5100
Samyang 14/2.8 | Nikon 18-35G, 24-85G VR, 70-200/4G VR

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DoughnutPhoto
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Oct 30, 2014 14:54 as a reply to  @ brettjrob's post |  #115

Nice video, though a lot of reasons don't apply to me personally.

A big issue for me with mirrorless cameras is the size and weight. Hey, I'm a tall guy with big hands so I prefer my cameras to be big. The only time weight is an issue for me is when I have to walk about for hours with not just the cameras in my bag, but everything for a week's vacation as well (chargers, laptop, clothes...) If anything a heavier camera helps balance the weight.

Setting WB in Kelvin is something I dont get what exactly he is on about? I can set my white balance to all sorts of presets and I can use custom white balance. If that somehow fails, I'll just use Photoshop. But clearly his workflow is different but I don't quite understand.

I'm also not quite sure about the whole intimidation thing. Well, I like shooting with prime lenses that are generally small. I've failed to intimidate people for a long time ;). There's always some people that dont want to have their picture taken, nothing to do with intimidation though. I bet if you stick a 70-200 f/2.8 to a mirrorless camera, you'll intimidate some people!

The theft thing I can understand. Unfortunately, thieves will be more interested in the latest and greatest: that brand new mirrorless camera ;). Kidding aside, I'd say thieves are more likely to rob people that are obviously carrying a camera and in certain situations. I'm not quite sure having a smaller camera would help? Being aware of my surroundings helps me personally, and I try to stay clear of large groups of tourists.

Fortunately my cameras suit my style.


Canon 5d, 60d, 17-40mm L, 30mm Art, 50mm, 85mm

  
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05Xrunner
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Oct 30, 2014 15:00 |  #116

Yeah the Kelvin thing. I think ever canon offers ability to adjust Kelvin. Alot of crappie he says sounds like he is just trying to sound like he is some hipster using mirror less and not a big Dslr with a big lens that will get the shot. I'd like to hear his reasons if someone asked shooting sports. That's where it falls flat on its face because of lack of lenses for that application


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BigDil
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Dec 19, 2014 13:13 as a reply to  @ post 17235706 |  #117

In one of Mr (I'm a great photographer - his words) Laniers latest videos, he is having lunch with two Sony executives. Do you think this could mean anything???:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


EOS 5D MKIII, EOS 5d MKII, EOS 70D, AE1, Tamron 17-35 Di, Tamron 28-75 Di, Tamron 90mm Macro Di, Canon 16-35L, Canon 24-105L , Canon 100-400L , Canon f1.4 50mm USM, Canon EF II 1.4X TC, Canon EF II 2X TC, Canon 580 EX, Canon 430 EX, Canon 580 EXII, Canon 430 EXII, Canon STE2, a bunch of Phottix Strato 4 in 1 Receivers and Transmitters, Sekonic L558, another bunch of Phottix Odin Receivers and Transmitter units, Lee Filters

  
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Goodbye DSLR Nikon, Hello Mirrorless Sony
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