7D mk II image quality RAW worse than 7D for now

In all images I used USM.

The 7D looks detailed like the 5DmkIII but the 70D and the 7DmkII look worse on the red fabric.

AllenF wrote in post #17227391
Teamspeed
Thank you for the suggestion. I did as you asked and while an improvement occured the image compared to the 7D was still messed up. This is the case for the 70D AND the 7DmkII.

Please try it for yourself and then report back here. If I did screw up perhaps you will show me where and all will learn from my putting my foot in my mouth.

I have already done all of this in my review performed a while back. You cannot mix and match sharpening methods between the 2, because it will indeed create differing results. There is nothing you have come across that I haven't talked about. The bottom line is that the 7D2 is very, very close to the 70D and 7D. All 3 are within 2/3 a stop from each other, and copy variations alone could make some of this gap up.

Oh and by the way, Canon certainly did say that the 7D2 has improved image quality over the 7D.

No Mix and match all used USM. Now are you saying that in DPP Canon applies the USM differently for each body? If so what I am most concerned with is the final image and for now I can not get the red channel detail to be nearly as good on the 70D/7DmkII as I can in DPP in the 7D/ 5DmkIII.

Could you link to your review for me? Thanks in advance.

As for Canon talking up IQ in thew 7DmkII all i am aware of is new micro lenses and they left it at that.

David Arbogast wrote in post #17227315
I just think it is premature to make this level of analysis prior to the camera shipping. Some very interesting considerations for when the camera is available for more intensive reviews though.

This. I don't get the ridiculous need for people to "review" a camera which isn't even available yet...

AllenF wrote in post #17227423
No Mix and match all used USM. Now are you saying that in DPP Canon applies the USM differently for each body? If so what I am most concerned with is the final image and for now I can not get the red channel detail to be nearly as good on the 70D/7DmkII as I can in DPP in the 7D/ 5DmkIII.

Could you link to your review for me? Thanks in advance.

Yes, each camera model seems to tweak in-camera settings differently, and DPP honors those for you. I linked to my post above, and it is in my mini-reviews link in my signature.

https://photography-on-the.net …305&highlight=m​ini-review

As to you being able to massage the raw files for each body to try to produce better detail from one over the other, I am not sure. This is what happens with different lenses (even if it was the same model of lens) are used 5 years apart on different bodies. Detail retention is a hard thing to do comparisons on unless you use the same exact lens on 2 different models in the exact same conditions (ie at the same time). It is apparent that the IR "studio" has changed a bit from 5 years ago, as lighting is a bit different, objects have been rearranged differently, etc. Noise is easier to gauge, sharpness from such a site? Not so much...

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #17227433
This. I don't get the ridiculous need for people to "review" a camera which isn't even available yet...

The camera is available, not just to the masses right now, so many different sources have handled and used the camera in a host of different settings, and raw files exist for our perusal. It is certainly reasonable to pull those raws and start analyzing them to see what we might expect before we shell out $1800 for the camera. There is nothing silly about this at all from perspectives of others.

If I felt as you, I would just ignore any 7D2 thread until the camera shipped to consumers.

Teamspeed
Thanx for the link and while I only read the fist page I would like you to look at the FABRIC WHEEL in particular the red fabric swatches. Compare them to the 7D and the 5dmkIII. I think you will see what I mean.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17227444
The camera is available, not just to the masses right now, so many different sources have handled and used the camera in a host of different settings, and raw files exist for our perusal. It is certainly reasonable to pull those raws and start analyzing them to see what we might expect before we shell out $1800 for the camera. There is nothing silly about this at all from perspectives of others.

If I felt as you, I would just ignore any 7D2 thread until the camera shipped to consumers.

It's hard to ignore them when a new one pops up every 2 hours...

To be clear I AM NOT REVIEWING this camera. I like others here have taken the time to see FOR MY SELF what the pre-production RAW images will look like were they taken by me and PP in DPP.

I found a problem and reported it here as I felt others would like to try it for themselves FOR FREE.
$1800 is a high price to pay only to find out your 7D is better and paid for. IMO there is an issue with DPP. Time will tell. Since AFAIK it is the only RAW converter out and since it is doing something wacky I choose to take a wait and see attitude. I think others may to.

Please look at the fabric wheel and the texture and detail and the red channel info loss.

Two points to ponder. If Canon released a camera with a worse noise profile than its 5-year-old predecessor, the critics would have a field day. I am sure Canon knows enough about camera technology to avoid doing that. I've read lots of TeamSpeed's posts on noise reduction. I believe he knows of what he speaks.

Unverifiable fact. I downloaded the IR ISO 6400 (?) 7D2 raw files. I processed them to the best of my meager abilities. I got better results from the 7D2 than I can get from my 60D. I consider the 7D and 60D to be nearly indistinguishable in noise profile at 6400. My processed 7D2 ISO 6400 shots were not as good as my 6D 6400 shots, but they were closer to the 6D than the 60D. My testing is completely subjective, AND I don't have similar scenes from my cameras to compare.

Conclusion. Until professional reviews make the claim that the 7DII is no better than the 7D/70D, I refuse to entertain the idea. On the surface, it is quite implausible.

EDIT: Thread title compares 7D to 7DII IQ. That seems a bit unfair, as the thread seems to be arguing an internal DPP issue. I did my work in LR 5.6.

To be clearer(?) I am not looking at noise or stops of improvement. I am seeing in the red channel on the fabric wheel a MAJOR loss of contrast detail between the red and the leaf detail on the red sample fabric. Compared to the 5DmkIII and the 7D vs the 70D and the 7DmkII Pre-production sample.This is at ISO 100. IMO lighting and lenses should not account for this difference as the rest of the image is fine. IMO it is something going on with how DPP is dealing with the red channel and I would love for others to look at the fabric and tell me that they do or do not see what I am seeing.

Piling on WITHOUT looking at what I am commenting on is a waste of bandwidth, IMO.

Again, it is hard with the IR test studio to make any real assessment of detail rendering. While I see what you mean on the red cloth in the cloth color wheel, when you go to different parts of the scene, you get other results. First the 7D2 is exposed about 1/5 a stop more than the 7D, and it seems parts of the image are in focus where others are not, differing in each shot. This tells me they shoot the cameras at different angles through the years.

Here is a different red object. The 7D2 is on the left, the 7D is on the right. They are much closer here than on the other section. NR, both sliders set at 0 for both, exposure on the 7D2 brought down 1/5 stop, and USM (3 sliders) sharpening used on the 7D2, standard sharpening (single slider) used on the 7D.

So don't get hung up on detail rendering using the IR sources. If you want that kind of info, go look for Romy's thread (Liquidstone - EDIT: Hereit is). He ran a 7D2 through some birding outings with some very interesting results. Also it wasn't the red channel that plagued the 7D, it was the blue, I believe. However the red channel has always been problematic for Canon's offerings through the years, it is perhaps the dirtiest channels of the 3 color channels. My noise actions have to do some heavy work on the red channel.

Bottom line, don't get the 7D2 for improved ISO management. Get it if you shoot JPG and want better OOC JPG, or need the better AF system, or need a better video system, but you might as well consider the ISO performance in raw to be pretty close, within 2/3 stop once you resize the 7D2 down, and you compare the detail rendering and what all that means for final noise reduction/post processing.

AllenF wrote in post #17227484
To be clearer(?) I am not looking at noise or stops of improvement. I am seeing in the red channel on the fabric wheel a MAJOR loss of contrast detail between the red and the leaf detail on the red sample fabric. Compared to the 5DmkIII and the 7D vs the 70D and the 7DmkII Pre-production sample.This is at ISO 100. IMO lighting and lenses should not account for this difference as the rest of the image is fine. IMO it is something going on with how DPP is dealing with the red channel and I would love for others to look at the fabric and tell me that they do or do not see what I am seeing.

Piling on WITHOUT looking at what I am commenting on is a waste of bandwidth, IMO.

So you are stating that you found one very specific area was worse in your opinion and have declared the 7D2 to be worse as a whole.