Another what camera thread

70D is more than capable and buy a simple 270EX II with a stofen and bounce off ceilings.... with the money you save with those claiming FF is the 'only' way to go - save your money and buy long L glass for excellent 1.6x wildlife shots Excellent real-estate and excellent long reach wildlife = happiness

Immaculens wrote in post #17238890
buy a simple 270EX II with a stofen and bounce off ceilings....

Bounce off ceilings is good, Sto-Fen diffuser not so good. What little good they do they accomplish by directing some light to the ceiling and walls if those are near by - and you can do that better yourself.

Archibald wrote in post #17238947
Bounce off ceilings is good, Sto-Fen diffuser not so good. What little good they do they accomplish by directing some light to the ceiling and walls if those are near by - and you can do that better yourself.

better bare flash and no stofen/diffuser, you mean?

Immaculens wrote in post #17238951
better bare flash and no stofen/diffuser, you mean?

Yes ...

A Sto-Fen might be of some use in small light-colored rooms, in which case you could use it for direct lighting. The disadvantage is that Sto-Fen diffusers don't have a very good reputation and therefore make the user look uninformed.

Archibald wrote in post #17238992
Yes ...

A Sto-Fen might be of some use in small light-colored rooms, in which case you could use it for direct lighting. The disadvantage is that Sto-Fen diffusers don't have a very good reputation and therefore make the user look uninformed.

I'm quite a lighting noob after 6 yrs so I am open to any suggestions for best bounce practices

So you yourself would suggest ditching the stofen in most cases, and bounce bare flash instead?

You kind of prove to us that you don't really know what you're talking about:

"... with a stofen and bounce off ceilings..."

You use a stofen to provide diffused and even illumination to subjects that are close to the camera to reduce shadow hardness by simultaneously bouncing light off of close walls and low ceilings, while marginally expanding the size of the light source. Real estate is not the correct application for a stofen. The correct application for a stofen is editorial or nightlife photography with human subjects indoors.

The worst part about what you said is that you suggest this guy buys a 270EX II. You can't even adjust the head on that flash to the left or right. It's just a forward facing flash that can point up at varying degrees. To appropriately use the stofen, you need a swivel head flash unit that can direct the light to the left and right sides of the subject, in addition to a 45 degree angle vertically or directly to the ceiling.

Regarding the 1.6X crop factor that crop sensor owners always rave about for long-reach wildlife. They just have never used a 400mm f/2.8 IS II with a 2X II Extender on a full frame before. Then they'd be singing a different tune. I have, and I can tell you that there is absolutely no comparison of a crop sensor taking a wildlife photograph made with a 400mm f/2.8 lens to a wildlife photograph made using a full frame camera with a 600mm f/4 lens.


Be wary of this advice as well.

Immaculens wrote in post #17238890
70D is more than capable and buy a simple 270EX II with a stofen and bounce off ceilings.... with the money you save with those claiming FF is the 'only' way to go - save your money and buy long L glass for excellent 1.6x wildlife shots Excellent real-estate and excellent long reach wildlife = happiness

CRCchemist wrote in post #17239103
Regarding the 1.6X crop factor that crop sensor owners always rave about for long-reach wildlife. They just have never used a 400mm f/2.8 IS II with a 2X II Extender on a full frame before. Then they'd be singing a different tune. I have, and I can tell you that there is absolutely no comparison of a crop sensor taking a wildlife photograph made with a 400mm f/2.8 lens to a wildlife photograph made using a full frame camera with a 600mm f/4 lens.


Be wary of this advice as well.

You're kind of missing the point. FF's that AF quickly and accurstely are great for wildlife where you're not focal length limited.

If the 400mm f/2.8 gets you the shot on a crop and you've got access to a 600mm f/4 you're not focal length limited and therefore your argument's got nothing to do with the 1.6X crop factor that crop users rave about...

CRC,

I can't speak for everyone who shoots wildlife, of course, but I suspect if funds were unlimited, most of us would own a 1D X along with a few of the super telephoto lenses Canon manufactures.

In the real world, many of us have budgets, sadly, and we have to get by with what we can afford, as my signature demonstrates.

To fordbjr,

When I was selling real estate, the office in which I worked had a very poor camera so I bought my own quality point and shoot. You might be printing much higher quality brochures than we were, but the quality of the original photos really took a hit by the time we printed them or posted them on the MLS site. I was quite proud of the results I got compared to the other agents but the photographs I'm getting from my 70D are a significant better. I'm not sure that improvement would translate well in the real world because of the degradation that happens when printed in brochures or in the MLS, as I posted above.

I said all this to say, unless you are producing very costly brochures, etc., the 70D will be more than adequate and you'll be able to have more fun shooting wildlife for your personal pleasure. This is just one man's opinion, of course. The 6D is a fine camera at an entry level price for FF.

That's a fair enough point. I just wanted the person who asked the original question to understand that full frame really is the superior technology in virtually every important way, even when comparing a 400mm f/2.8 lens on a crop sensor to a 600mm f/4 lens on a full-frame sensor (id est, they are virtually the exact same focal length after factoring the crop factor focal length multiplier, notwithstanding the aperture difference). So if he has to make a choice between only the 70D and the 6D, then it's a no-brainer that he should buy the 6D.

Phoenixkh wrote in post #17239381
CRC,

I can't speak for everyone who shoots wildlife, of course, but I suspect if funds were unlimited, most of us would own a 1D X along with a few of the super telephoto lenses Canon manufactures.

In the real world, many of us have budgets, sadly, and we have to get by with what we can afford, as my signature demonstrates.

CRCchemist wrote in post #17240178
I just wanted the person who asked the original question to understand that full frame really is the superior technology in virtually every important way, even when comparing a 400mm f/2.8 lens on a crop sensor to a 600mm f/4 lens on a full-frame sensor (id est, they are virtually the exact same focal length after factoring the crop factor focal length multiplier, notwithstanding the aperture difference). So if he has to make a choice between only the 70D and the 6D, then it's a no-brainer that he should buy the 6D.

This is not a contest to get the best quality. Considering how our pics are usually presented, most of the quality our cameras produce is thrown away. If you do demand the best quality, then get a medium format camera, which easily trumps your 35mm format sensor.

APS-C is more than adequate for most purposes. In most cases, nobody can tell which camera, APS-C or FF, or even P&S, took a picture.

So when did you last see a nature photographer taking photographs of wildlife at 600mm with a medium format camera? Or last hear about the autofocus system on a medium format used to capture birds flying in the air.

You never did. Because it's not possible with the optical dimensions and mechanics of a medium format system. So why would you say that? Maybe it's because you aren't speaking with any authority here because you don't really know what you're talking about.

P.S. What full frame camera body do you use to reach your conclusion?

Archibald wrote in post #17240227
This is not a contest to get the best quality. Considering how our pics are usually presented, most of the quality our cameras produce is thrown away. If you do demand the best quality, then get a medium format camera, which easily trumps your 35mm format sensor.

APS-C is more than adequate for most purposes. In most cases, nobody can tell which camera, APS-C or FF, or even P&S, took a picture.

here we go... popcorn?

Anyway, I'm done. I've made my point. The 6D will trump the 70D, just like the 5D II trumps the 70D. So the decision is easy. Get the 6D.