What 5D MK IV SHOULD be to stay competitive

I am thinking about a very-very intense competition that did not exist before and I think that Canon must do something truly remarkable if they want to stay in the business. I have a feeling that they might be moving towards video which might be their distinctive area (Canon - video, Nikon - Photo). There is a very strong competition from mirrorless systems and I am sure that for most photographers...advanc​ed enthusiasts....the evolution of Sony system is all they need. DSLR will become a Professional's choice IMO.

I think for 5D MK IV the competition is Sony and Nikon and therefore these are the area that I think Canon will need to out-smart and out-develop:

1. Resolution (not sure you need to take on Medium Format, but a 30-40 MP sensor is most probably the next thing)

2. Dynamic Range - ability to recover details, highlight and shadows...must be class leading

3. ISO performance. Now people know what Sony can do with their sensors and A7r/s II is coming soon

Overall, I do not believe that it is possible to make a camera body that is perfect for everything:

1. High MP, phenomenal DR and Low ISO - you need it for Landscape and portrait
2. AF, high FPS - you need it for Sports and wild life

I would love to have that choice - have a camera that is exceptional when it comes to DR, ISO and great resolution for Landscape and then you do not need high FPS. Some folks need High FPS and would go for a different body and maybe lower resolution.

Thoughts?

I'll be skipping the mark 4 totally as I'm very happy with my 5D3. My guess on possible improvements to the mk4 would be perhaps 1 stop low light improvement and getting the 7D2 focus system. I can't see a huge MP bump and for me, 22 is more than enough.

I think the Mark 4 is still a year away I do not see any point in speculating

Why?!
5D was introduced in 2005
5D Mark II in 2009
5D Mark III in 2012
So these are aprox 3.5-4 years.
My prediction based on that is the Mark IV is coming sometime in 2016

Canon .......video??? They'd have to actually listen to their loyal customers then...LOL!!

The panasonic gh4 is a feature rich mirrorless camera that is an amazing video camera. Problem is the limitation of the m43 sensor lacks the super clean video at high iso. Oddly if you look at gh4 video it outperforms the 5dmk3 for clean details.

Hopefully canon is putting great efforts in R&D but IMO they should be looking elsewhere for external help in improving their cmos sensors. I'll have to say the 5dmk3 is still fantastic for challenging low light photography.

With the 7dmk2 hitting the streets I think this will be a great video camera with dual pixel technology and marginally better high iso performance than the 70D.

As far as mega pixels are concerned I think Canon has a fine balance between very good high iso performance and manageable file size.

IV Keys to 5D IV success:

I. An all-new 23.1MP sensor with 12.6 EV dynamic range (DXO score of 83)
II. 71 point AF system
III. 1/3 stop high ISO improvement over 5D III
IV. 1080P @ 59 fps

They can make marginal/incremental improvements like that, and photographers will go ape over the new camera. We'll hear all sorts of wonderful anecdotes about how "Canon listened and gave us just the camera we wanted!!!" Improved resolution? I can make awesome billboard-sized prints oozing with detail from a 1MP photo - 23.1MP is overkill! Greater dynamic range? Please. Who needs that? Learn to expose properly idiot! Just give me a 5D IV that is almost identical to the 5D III with a couple more bells and whistles and that's all I want. A few ultra-modest improvements to the "Rate" button would be some oh-so-sweet icing on the cake.

^I'm just having a little fun on the above. In all seriousness and sincerity I am very excited to see what Canon does with the upcoming 5D IV - and I hope it comes out next year.

I just need it to come out so the 5d3 becomes $750 cheaper used.

hang your cross wrote in post #17241709
I just need it to come out so the 5d3 becomes $750 cheaper used.

Are going to keep the 6D, or are you looking to have 2 FF bodies like me ?

Patbil10 wrote in post #17241710
Are going to keep the 6D, or are you looking to have 2 FF bodies like me ?

probably sell it. although, i would miss the wifi feature.

I do not think Canon can afford this thinking. Nikon and Sony wish they would, though. I do not believe that as a company you can afford to only make yourself as a point of reference and ignore the market dynamics. To stay in the business you need to be following the market dynamics at minimum and ideally to be one step ahead of the market.

I do not have the data, but I think Canon knows that many photographers are switching to Nikon D810 and Sony A7. One of the main reasons is the sensor technology.

5D MKIV in 2016? Too many people will switch to Sony and Nikon by then.

NemethR wrote in post #17241538
Why?!
5D was introduced in 2005
5D Mark II in 2009
5D Mark III in 2012
So these are aprox 3.5-4 years.
My prediction based on that is the Mark IV is coming sometime in 2016

David Arbogast wrote in post #17241677
^I'm just having a little fun on the above. In all seriousness and sincerity I am very excited to see what Canon does with the upcoming 5D IV - and I hope it comes out next year.

I truly believe it must come out next year. Canon will definitely do something. They will either introduce 3D next year and then update 5D line...there must be something in the pipeline for next year simply because of the competition, which is a lot more intense than it ever was.

It can be that Canon will start segmenting photographers differently.
Right now it is more like: Professional/Serious Enthusiast/Amateur
They might split the Pro line into:
1. Landscape + Portrait (Dynamic Range, High Resolution, some video)
2. Wedding/Sport (ISO, high FPS, advanced Video)

I would be super interested in the best and most advanced system for Landscape and Portraits in a compact body (not 1D size). Can be 5D, 3D....

For me to be really excited about the 5D4 I would want:

1.) Higher resolution... Something like 28MP would be perfect.
2.) Lack of AA filter option (or at least a less aggressive one)
3.) The AF system doesn't have to change, but improvements always welcome in accuracy/speed.
4.) 8FPS
5.) 1-stop high ISO improvement if possible... (6400 looks like current 3200, for example)
6.) Increased dynamic range and eliminate low ISO banding.
7.) Exposure comp in manual mode with Auto ISO.


I don't expect we will see all of that... But we can dream!

Honestly, I look at the photos I take today with my current gear and I'm not sure there's a ton of room for improvements, at least not enough to make me switch once the new camera is out. The 5d3 can take usable shots at 12800iso, has an extremely competent focusing system and 22MP suits me just fine. I can print 17x19's on my R3000 that look spectacular. I can understand why 5Dc/2 users wanted to upgrade since the focusing system was not that great.

As soon as I start getting the itch to upgrade, I go look at all the great photos taken with the 5dC/5d2 on this very forum and that puts the fire out quickly ! In real world use, is there really that much room for improvement if you have top of the line glass ? (all bets are off if you start pixel peeping)

Some will say the DR on the 5D3 sucks....sorry I can't see it. When I pull the shadows slider to the right, I have what I need and the little "noise" can be controlled as well...only photographers are so critical.

Anyway, that's my opinion....flame suit on !

Heya,

Considering the difference between the 5D2 & 5D3, I'm not really excited about what the 5D4 will bring as I don't need it's bells & whistles, I don't even need the 5D3. If I were to buy a new full frame right now other than my 5D, it would be a 6D. I don't want a full frame with the AF system of the 1DX as I'm find focusing without that. So I'd rather have a better sensor and other features and not pay for an AF system that I don't really take advantage of.

I'm more excited that maybe more people will rush to get the latest 5D offering for whatever reason, and perhaps make the 1D4 and 6D drop some more on the market.

I'm more excited about what the 6D2 will be. Again, because it will make the 6D more affordable. But also just because if they continue that line, the sensor and low light ability should be very exciting.

But on the subject, Canon isn't releasing against Sony/Nikon. They seem to just be doing their own thing. Canon seems to be pushing lens releases and their latest AF systems (which to me are superior to Sony/Nikon). But they keep leaving their sensors in yesteryear.

I look forward to the near 40MP sensors which we see are clearly possible and very good. I look forward to a Camera with 1 or 2 stops better ISO performance than the 6D for me to even look beyond the 6D. I don't need fancy AF, so I'm not worried there. But I do need the ability to fit precision matte focus screens into the camera as I like to use manual focus lenses often. In reality this is probably a 6+ year away camera from Canon. So by then, Sony will have already released something else. Or tech will have swung another direction anyways.

Very best,

Patbil10 wrote in post #17241818
Some will say the DR on the 5D3 sucks....sorry I can't see it.

The 5D III's DR does not suck. And those that say it does are often trolls looking to stir the pot. However, to Light Pilgrim's point, other competing cameras offer significantly better DR (which doesn't make the 5D III suck!), and it would be wonderful to see a competitive sensor from Canon.

On the other hand, as much as I like the sensor in my Sony, there are things I also love about the 5D III sensor. For now I am very happy to have and use both.

David Arbogast wrote in post #17241868
On the other hand, as much as I like the sensor in my Sony, there are things I also love about the 5D III sensor. For now I am very happy to have and use both.

Can you specify what you like about the Canon sensor vs Sony ? (other than DR)