What 5D MK IV SHOULD be to stay competitive

1. If it is going to be released this week, that level of sensor performance would be good. Next year though, the sensor needs to be better IMO.
2. I presume by 1/500 you're talking flash sync speed?

No, in the minimum shutter speed options when using Auto ISO.

Furthermore, I really doubt Canon will be able to fully leapfrog Sony's sensors. Realistically, do any of you?

I'd be happy with gaining on, or even just joining the Sony sensor club

mclaren777 wrote in post #17242762
No, in the minimum shutter speed options when using Auto ISO.

Furthermore, I really doubt Canon will be able to fully leapfrog Sony's sensors. Realistically, do any of you?

Oh, I see. Fwiw, The Auto ISO on the D4 sets minimum shutter speed according to focal length (where the lens reports back to the camera) with an option for you to set what ratio of the focal length you want that minimum to be, alternately you can set a specific minimum shutter speed. I'm pretty sure the D750 and D810 also do this. All should do it this way IMO and should be something that Canon looks to match or better

Anything Canon releases has to well and truly beat the D810, since it's likely to be around for the next 3-5 years, while Nikon will likely release an updated model within 2 years.

And no more releasing 'cut down' cameras to encourage people to spend more for their 'flagship' 1Dx.

The simple fact is that Nikon has two flagships - the D4s and the D810 - with neither one better than the other, although the D4s commands a price premium because news outlets are willing to pay that much. Both have Nikon's top-of-the-line AF system, full weather sealing and dual cards. The D4s is action-oriented, although still perfectly capable of great landscapes/architectur​e/macro work if you don't need the resolution. The D810 is resolution/landscape/n​on-action oriented, but is perfectly capable of sports and action (having the same AF system as the D4s) if you don't need the fps, and is perhaps even better for wildlife due to the pixel density. Even the lack of grip and lighter build are advantageous for the role, since the D810, unlike the D4s, often has to be lugged kilometres over difficult terrain and carried on small local flights with very limited luggage capacity in order to take the landscape shots for which the camera is designed.

Canon has the 1Dx positioned against the D4s, but nothing against the D810. The 5D3 and D750 are positioned against each other in terms of general, non-sensor capability (the D750 winning at the moment due to being two years newer) while the D610 and 6D are positioned against each other. The D810, really, is an updated 1Ds-series camera, with no compromises in AF, construction or other capabilities, at a much lower price point. Canon doesn't even have a true 1Ds3 replacement, let alone one at the $3k price point, which is probably the new price point for a high-resolution camera with top-of-the-line AF, sealing, dual cards and other pro-level features, due to the price set by the D810 and downward pressure from the A7r (which has the sensor, but not the other capabilities).

If released this year, and looking to remain competitive for a product life of 3-4 years, a Canon competitor would probably neeneed:

- 45-55MP with Exmor-level DR
- 1Dx-level AF, with capabilities updated for 2014/15
- Dual cards
- Optional, not inbuilt grip (you can attach a grip but not saw one off, and this camera, unlike the 1Dx is likely to be dragged up mountains on foot and carried with strict luggage limitations)
- 1/250 sync speed
- 6fps

Sure, that exceeds the D810 by a bit, especially sensor-wise, but Sony is releasing a 46-54MP Exmor soon, and the next-generation Nikon is bound to use a similar sensor.

Any less than that and the camera may look good now, but will look decidedly backwards when Nikon releases the D850 two years from now.

Or, more likely, not the 5D4, but a new/resuscitated line of FF bodies (3D or 1Ds).

1Dx vs D4s - pro action
5D3 vs D750 - general-purpose
6D vs D610 - cheap
??? vs D810 - pro hi-res

Shadowblade wrote in post #17243000
- 45-55MP with Exmor-level DR

This would cause many people to not buy a 5D4, myself included.

If Canon wants to get into a pointless resolution war in the >36MP range, I would hope it would be with a new line like a 3D.

mclaren777 wrote in post #17243166
This would cause many people to not buy a 5D4, myself included.

If Canon wants to get into a pointless resolution war in the >36MP range, I would hope it would be with a new line like a 3D.

That's what mRAW and sRAW are for. Those who need resolution get it, while those who don't get virtually noise-free 23-27MP images.

Resolution isn't pointless - not if you print large (landscapes, architecture or studio work), have tiny subjects (macro) or crop heavily (wildlife). Even at 54MP, I'd only get 150 pixels/inch in a 40x60" landscape. Also, it obviates the need for an AA filter, making all images sharper and more detailed.

A lot of people have moved to the D810/800E/800, or are shooting Canon lenses with the A7r, just for the resolution and DR.

This is more or less how I think too. There must be some kind of segmentation.
This is how I would also map it....
But this is also strange. From the build quality and price...5D MKIII competes with D810, but when it comes to capabilities it is indeed a lot closer to D750.
I am speculating that Canon will release a new product for Landscape/Portrait/Stu​dio photographers and it can be called 3D - class leading DR, Resolution and no more than 5 FPS. Problem is, Canon cannot compete with Sony sensors....so they might not have the answer.

Shadowblade wrote in post #17243094
Or, more likely, not the 5D4, but a new/resuscitated line of FF bodies (3D or 1Ds).

1Dx vs D4s - pro action
5D3 vs D750 - general-purpose
6D vs D610 - cheap
??? vs D810 - pro hi-res

I'd be happy with AF in video mode so people wouldn't laugh at me when I tell them my $3k camera is basically useless for video...

Somebloke wrote in post #17243208
I'd be happy with AF in video mode so people wouldn't laugh at me when I tell them my $3k camera is basically useless for video...

I used to have 5D MKII and now I have 5D MKIII and I never tried video - simply do not need it So I do not know what are the video-related requirements

Believe it or not, video capability can make it much harder to travel with a camera.

Many places around the world allow photography, but either completely disallow video or charge a much higher price for video cameras.

This used to only apply to camcorders. But, lately, they've cottoned on to the fact that stills cameras can shoot pro-standard video too, and have started banning or restricting stills cameras capable of shooting video, going off a list of video-capable cameras kept at the entrance.

light_pilgrim wrote in post #17243211
I used to have 5D MKII and now I have 5D MKIII and I never tried video - simply do not need it So I do not know what are the video-related requirements

I'd almost prefer they didn't include video-without AF it's bloody useless for 90% of situations. iPhone for video 5d3 for pics....

Shadowblade wrote in post #17243224
Believe it or not, video capability can make it much harder to travel with a camera.

Many places around the world allow photography, but either completely disallow video or charge a much higher price for video cameras.

This used to only apply to camcorders. But, lately, they've cottoned on to the fact that stills cameras can shoot pro-standard video too, and have started banning or restricting stills cameras capable of shooting video, going off a list of video-capable cameras kept at the entrance.

Excuse my ignorance but what sort of places charge for having a video capable camera?

Somebloke wrote in post #17243282
Excuse my ignorance but what sort of places charge for having a video capable camera?

All over India, some places in Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam, some places in Nepal, many places in the Middle East and central Asia...