Is it any wonder shops are closing down...

I'm just old enough to remember the old way, no internet retail model.

I am absolutely not sure it was better. Worse, actually.

There were salesmen who were trained in how to sell the product store wanted to move. They were knowledgeable enough to talk about their product, but couldn't be relied upon to give an honest advice.

There also were (in small shops mainly) people who were passionate about the product they sold, and very knowledgeable. Their advice could be often trusted, if opinionated. Half of them had no people skills and the other half had no business skill.

An honest, knowledgeable store salesman with integrity, technical and business savvy and people skills was perhaps easier to find than today, but also - in my opinion - a rarity.

Getting honest user reviews and price comparisons was much more difficult and much less instantaneous.

I think the current model - while it has it's own issues - works better in the end for the user.

taemo wrote in post #17244347
online B&H that is because the times I've been to the physical store, the service has been sub-par, not very helpful nor friendly at all.

Wow, I was there in July and my experience could not have been more opposite. I found the employees to be ridiculously helpful and friendly...

what do you expect for $8 an hour?

jetcode wrote in post #17283812
what do you expect for $8 an hour?

At the very least, the same effort I am making at my job for whatever I am being paid.

If they don't want to do the job, they shouldn't take it.

It's not like these guys are being forced to carry bags of coal for 12 hours x 7 days straight.

When the businesses they work for close their doors - in part due to the crappy attitudes of floor clerks - they will be the first ones to **** and moan about losing their jobs.

Amamba wrote in post #17284533
At the very least, the same effort I am making at my job for whatever I am being paid.

If they don't want to do the job, they shouldn't take it.

It's not like these guys are being forced to carry bags of coal for 12 hours x 7 days straight.

When the businesses they work for close their doors - in part due to the crappy attitudes of floor clerks - they will be the first ones to **** and moan about losing their jobs.

Good luck with that. There are few shops left that make a profit. The local shop gets by because the owner owns the building and it's worth a fortune. The people behind the counter are reasonably intelligent but it's not like the old days when these stores flourished and photographers picking up a little side money worked there. Not to mention that today's technology is beyond most people in terms of complexity compared to the days of film. You have to have a strong technical head to be able to keep up with today's cameras. All for minimum wage. Small shops will suffer. Big shops like B&H and Keeble and Shucat still have people that have been there a long time. They are seasoned pros.

Amamba wrote in post #17284533
At the very least, the same effort I am making at my job for whatever I am being paid.

If they don't want to do the job, they shouldn't take it.

It's not like these guys are being forced to carry bags of coal for 12 hours x 7 days straight.

When the businesses they work for close their doors - in part due to the crappy attitudes of floor clerks - they will be the first ones to **** and moan about losing their jobs.

I wonder which planet you come from.
Have you ever lived and worked among, you know, people?

andrikos wrote in post #17284828
I wonder which planet you come from.
Have you ever lived and worked among, you know, people?

Store clerks are people?!!

andrikos wrote in post #17284828
I wonder which planet you come from.
Have you ever lived and worked among, you know, people?

Yes, and surprisingly, many still have this thing called "work ethics". Nobody held a gun to their head forcing them to take the job, if they don't want to do it they should quit and let someone else take their place, if they are agreeing to do it for the price they should treat it just like any other job, if they feel they are being underpaid and they have valuable skill they can try and renegotiate their pay.

You wouldn't think it right if a roofing company did a poor job on your house because they gave you a lower price, or if a car shop changed brakes on your car for half a price and they failed in two weeks. Why should an employer be OK with people not doing the job they are being paid to do, just because they feel they are not being paid enough ?

You're not forced to go an extra mile if you feel you're not being paid enough - but at the very least you have to do the job you're being paid to do. Which in my experience a good 2/3rd of BestBuy employees don't seem to be able to manage. They walk around like zombies and are clearly annoyed when a customer asks them a question. But it's been years since I set my foot in one.

There are places where this kind of attitude will get you fired in a week. But then Best Buy and others clearly don't care, so it's really a management problem.

Amamba wrote in post #17285166
Yes, and surprisingly, many still have this thing called "work ethics". Nobody held a gun to their head forcing them to take the job, if they don't want to do it they should quit and let someone else take their place, if they are agreeing to do it for the price they should treat it just like any other job, if they feel they are being underpaid and they have valuable skill they can try and renegotiate their pay.

You wouldn't think it right if a roofing company did a poor job on your house because they gave you a lower price, or if a car shop changed brakes on your car for half a price and they failed in two weeks. Why should an employer be OK with people not doing the job they are being paid to do, just because they feel they are not being paid enough ?

You're not forced to go an extra mile if you feel you're not being paid enough - but at the very least you have to do the job you're being paid to do. Which in my experience a good 2/3rd of BestBuy employees don't seem to be able to manage. They walk around like zombies and are clearly annoyed when a customer asks them a question. But it's been years since I set my foot in one.

There are places where this kind of attitude will get you fired in a week. But then Best Buy and others clearly don't care, so it's really a management problem.

Modern retail jobs are mostly focused on moving product from the store room to the display floor, and making sure people don't wander off without paying for it. After that their job is mainly about lifting stuff and pointing customers to the products they're looking for (or the ones management is trying to sell). Actually helping customers is kind of a bonus if they can, but not really all that important. Most customers either already know what they want, or are completely clueless.


And the employer didn't hold a gun to their head, but have you tried starving or freezing to death? I hear they're fun things to do.

Also, if all you're paying me is barely enough to feed myself and stay alive, and you don't want to offer any more than that, then you can bet that I have little interest in doing anymore than the barest minimum needed to meet your job description. Why should I do any more to help you when you're barely willing to help me?

Luckless wrote in post #17285190
Modern retail jobs are mostly focused on moving product from the store room to the display floor, and making sure people don't wander off without paying for it. After that their job is mainly about lifting stuff and pointing customers to the products they're looking for (or the ones management is trying to sell). Actually helping customers is kind of a bonus if they can, but not really all that important. Most customers either already know what they want, or are completely clueless.


And the employer didn't hold a gun to their head, but have you tried starving or freezing to death? I hear they're fun things to do.

Also, if all you're paying me is barely enough to feed myself and stay alive, and you don't want to offer any more than that, then you can bet that I have little interest in doing anymore than the barest minimum needed to meet your job description. Why should I do any more to help you when you're barely willing to help me?

Well, since flagging down one of these clowns in all but impossible most of the time, I don't think they are really meeting their job description.

As I said, it all depends on management. If the shift manager could care less about his employees attitude, they will be nowhere to be found when needed and rude if they do have to tend to customers. If the management cares, so do the employees, regardless of how they are being paid.

Next time you order something in a restaurant and the food arrives late, cold and not quite what you've ordered, just remember that the cook and the waitress feel underpaid; I am sure you'd be OK with this.

20droger wrote in post #17285148
Store clerks are people?!!

Not in AZ*!

* lived there a long time.

Amamba wrote in post #17285166
Yes, and surprisingly, many still have this thing called "work ethics". Nobody held a gun to their head forcing them to take the job, if they don't want to do it they should quit and let someone else take their place, if they are agreeing to do it for the price they should treat it just like any other job, if they feel they are being underpaid and they have valuable skill they can try and renegotiate their pay.

You wouldn't think it right if a roofing company did a poor job on your house because they gave you a lower price, or if a car shop changed brakes on your car for half a price and they failed in two weeks. Why should an employer be OK with people not doing the job they are being paid to do, just because they feel they are not being paid enough ?

You're not forced to go an extra mile if you feel you're not being paid enough - but at the very least you have to do the job you're being paid to do. Which in my experience a good 2/3rd of BestBuy employees don't seem to be able to manage. They walk around like zombies and are clearly annoyed when a customer asks them a question. But it's been years since I set my foot in one.

There are places where this kind of attitude will get you fired in a week. But then Best Buy and others clearly don't care, so it's really a management problem.

Agree with you 100%.
I don't set foot in chain stores/restaurants/etc​.
I boycotted *walmart way before it was cool.

* does not deserve capitalization

Amamba wrote in post #17285225
Well, since flagging down one of these clowns in all but impossible most of the time, I don't think they are really meeting their job description.

As I said, it all depends on management. If the shift manager could care less about his employees attitude, they will be nowhere to be found when needed and rude if they do have to tend to customers. If the management cares, so do the employees, regardless of how they are being paid.

Next time you order something in a restaurant and the food arrives late, cold and not quite what you've ordered, just remember that the cook and the waitress feel underpaid; I am sure you'd be OK with this.

I've been to a few places like that. I tend not to go back, and instead spend my money else where that can provide the quality and level of service I want. Sure, it costs me more, but I'm getting what I pay for.

I've worked at both the retail and manufacturer levels, and I can tell you that a very, very big reason for poor attitudes amongst sales people is the crappy attitudes that customers have, and customers who come in and "clerk" the sales staff (ask questions) only to go buy online.

Nothing is as perfect as we wish it would be. But my rather extensive person experience (the better part of 20 years) has taught me that, if customers would be a little less condescending and, well, prickish, the sales folks would care more about helping them.

The guys I used to work with would bust their ass for eight bucks an hour because they knew the customers appreciated it. Those customers who walked in like they were Christ off the cross (and, my God, there were so many of them) would be dealt with accordingly. There's one rule of retail that customers are never told: The level of service you're provided is inversely proportional to the amount of attitude you bring through the door...

andrikos wrote in post #17285235
Agree with you 100%.
I don't set foot in chain stores/restaurants/etc​.
I boycotted *walmart way before it was cool.

* does not deserve capitalization

And here I thought that in Germany the capitalized the name of everything!!!

Here in Benson, AZ, we have two choices: buy from Walmart; or drive 50 miles to the next town.