Sony (overall company)

Wow they just can't figure it out..

http://money.cnn.com …sony/index.html​?hpt=hp_t2

Even if the imaging unit is doing well, it still stinks to be the last band playing on the Titanic.

maybe Canon should buy Sony's sensor tech if they are forced to sell it off...

Eccentric M wrote in post #17243662
maybe Canon should buy Sony's sensor tech if they are forced to sell it off...

Interesting, because that would surely be awkward for Nikon...right?

It's a shame that so few people buy Sony smartphones.

Regardless, I think they'll be fine in the long run. I've been pleased with Hirai's leadership so far.

As an a7 owner I hope that things don't get too bad...

I'd be first in line for an Xperia IF Verizon would only allow it.

Curious. The comments underneath that article are as painful to read as they are predictable, one vocal commentator turning on the public's 'stupidity' when the inevitable comparison with Apple is made; always a sign they are running out of argument. But anyway..

The problem I have had with Sony is their complete lack of overall vision. Their cameras are ok, but as a brand package I wouldn't touch their gear with a yard stick. They announced a 500 telephoto a year or two ago; is that it? Not exactly going to cater for the wants and needs of the professional market, and if they aren't trying why would I, or anybody, invest in a brand without that vision? They don't have anything comparable to Canon or Nikon pro bodies, so it all just sort of falls flat as another choice of DSLR if you buy in with an eye on the future. And to be honest I have never been terribly impressed with the wildlife I have seen taken on Sony gear, what rolls out of the camera even in the hands of one of their 'advocates,' I know seems somehow muted. Hard to put my finger on it. I work with images, so i'm pretty confident that isn't some kind of subconscious prejudice against them as a brand either.

The other thing I have always had issues with is their software. It seems designed by someone with genuine ill-will towards his fellow man. The amount of time I have lost trying to work with video taken on Sony machines hasn't been much fun. I have simply said to people I might require video from these days simply don't touch Sony; to much hassle. Probably a Mac-Sony thing; to be honest I don't really care, video off other brands doesn't seem to generate the same hassle, and I don't want my machines clogged up with myriad software just to read their formats.

I would not worry, the imaging business could easily be split and become a major success.

mystik610 wrote in post #17247163
A peak at Sony's Q2 results shows that operationally, the business units that Sony is holding on to are actually profitable and are in pretty good shape. The company posted a huge operating loss because of a massive (176 billion) goodwill impairment they posted this period in their mobile communications segment.....they basically overvalued the strength of their mobile communications brand in this segment sometime in the past, and took a hit when they adjusted this to a more realistic value this period. It's posted as an operational loss, but technically its more of a valuation and accounting issue than an operational one.

Looking at things from a "pure" operational P/L (excluding the goodwill impairment) standpoint, the company, including the mobile communications segment, actually appears to be doing fine.

Plus, goodwill impairment is a cash-neutral operation, so ultimately it doesn't prevent the company from staying afloat. However, they're still bleeding cash (though only about half as much as last year, which is encouraging) and while they still have a comfortable cash buffer and significant borrowing facility, it's Not A Good Thing. On the other hand, much of these outflows are investment and financing, which means they're still developing stuff and not just losing money on actual operations.

I wouldn't say they're exactly in a good position, but I don't think it's quite as bad as reported, and certainly not for the reasons bandied about.

IMAGE LINK: https://flic.kr/p/pCXQ​yG

armis wrote in post #17249097
Plus, goodwill impairment is a cash-neutral operation, so ultimately it doesn't prevent the company from staying afloat. However, they're still bleeding cash (though only about half as much as last year, which is encouraging) and while they still have a comfortable cash buffer and significant borrowing facility, it's Not A Good Thing. On the other hand, much of these outflows are investment and financing, which means they're still developing stuff and not just losing money on actual operations.

Cash flows overall look healthy actually...there was an intersegment transaction in the investment activities cash flows that creates a somewhat distorted view (nets out within the consolidated financial statements), but this is another one of those outlying events that should be excluded.

The key is that their operating cash flows are now positive. As long as that's the case, the ship can always be righted.

As you mentioned, there are big investment activity cash outflows, but this should be expected for a technology company. You'd have to do an analysis against comparable companies to really have an idea if the level of the company's investing activities cash flows is a cause for concern or not....in which we would likely exclude Canon from the analysis, because lord knows they are an outlier in terms of the amount of capital invested towards innovating

armis wrote in post #17249097
I wouldn't say they're exactly in a good position, but I don't think it's quite as bad as reported, and certainly not for the reasons bandied about.

The financial media is no different than any other media outlet, in that there is a prevailing negativity bias that disproportionately focuses on the 'failures' in the market...particularly when it comes to huge corporations like Sony.

Reading between the lines and actually looking at the company with any bit of common sense, I don't see any cause for gloom or doom at all. The company is by no means in great shape, but it actually looks like Sony has started to turn a positive corner.

Overreaction. Are they doing as well as they could be? No, obviously not and no one denies it. Are they teetering on the edge of collapse? Absolutely not. They have several very profitable divisions. Sony is a huge, multinational conglomerate and in this instance, the financial media have chosen to concentrate on the bad while leaving out the good.

You nail it right here. Sony has always tried to be a proprietary format company. In the last 5 years, their big proprietary format victory was the Blu-Ray, but 15 years ago, their proprietary loss was the Mini Disc.

That's just how they roll, and it's also why I don't buy Sony stuff. I've had the same problems as you do.

The problem is if their imaging division is split, then it's no longer under Sony, and so development will suffer. Well -- that's why I stay away!!!

Jahled wrote in post #17245125
The other thing I have always had issues with is their software. It seems designed by someone with genuine ill-will towards his fellow man. The amount of time I have lost trying to work with video taken on Sony machines hasn't been much fun. I have simply said to people I might require video from these days simply don't touch Sony; to much hassle. Probably a Mac-Sony thing; to be honest I don't really care, video off other brands doesn't seem to generate the same hassle, and I don't want my machines clogged up with myriad software just to read their formats.

CRCchemist wrote in post #17249799
You nail it right here. Sony has always tried to be a proprietary format company. In the last 5 years, their big proprietary format victory was the Blu-Ray, but 15 years ago, their proprietary loss was the Mini Disc.

That's just how they roll, and it's also why I don't buy Sony stuff. I've had the same problems as you do.

The problem is if their imaging division is split, then it's no longer under Sony, and so development will suffer. Well -- that's why I stay away!!!

yes, Sony stock price declining, the bonds are now "junk" status

just a matter of time

mystik610 wrote in post #17249149
The key is that their operating cash flows are now positive. As long as that's the case, the ship can always be righted.

Yes but only because of Financial Services, and I honestly don't know what goes on in there but I don't think it's about selling cameras or phones...