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Thread started 31 Oct 2014 (Friday) 12:28
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7D2: 70D/7D2/5D3 ISO Comparison

 
CyberDyneSystems
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Oct 31, 2014 23:59 |  #31

Um, some light dusting around the house might be a good idea.


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Nov 01, 2014 00:20 |  #32

and the canon chroma noise signiture continues to rear its ugly head...


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Nov 01, 2014 05:58 |  #33

Jim, would you mind if we put the samples side by side vs on top? If not please go to your profile and turn on imaging edit ok.

what I am seeing in those samples is that the 70d and 7d2 are nearly identical, and what is the differentiator is that the 7d2 has a cleaner blue channel. How was white balance set in those samples? Was a temperature set across all, or a common point selected for a custom wb?

When I do these comparisons, I usually use natural light as to not have a mix of cycling artificial lights affecting each frame from test to test. I assume this was natural light as well? White balance plays a big part in noise perception, what is noisy in one case can show less noise visually when setting a better wb.

(By the way, I would select the 7d2 any day over the k5, after post processing the end results would be in the canon's court for detail resolution)


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Nov 01, 2014 07:29 |  #34

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17245163 (external link)
Jim, would you mind if we put the samples side by side vs on top? If not please go to your profile and turn on imaging edit ok.

what I am seeing in those samples is that the 70d and 7d2 are nearly identical, and what is the differentiator is that the 7d2 has a cleaner blue channel. How was white balance set in those samples? Was a temperature set across all, or a common point selected for a custom wb?

When I do these comparisons, I usually use natural light as to not have a mix of cycling artificial lights affecting each frame from test to test. I assume this was natural light as well? White balance plays a big part in noise perception, what is noisy in one case can show less noise visually when setting a better wb.

(By the way, I would select the 7d2 any day over the k5, after post processing the end results would be in the canon's court for detail resolution)

Image editing is now enabled. The shots were done in natural light, although it was very cloudy outside. White balance was 'auto' for all the images.

Do you want any of the raw files? I have a place to post them if they would help.


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Nov 01, 2014 07:33 |  #35

Having the raw would be great, I can do a better side by side that way. Other than slight differences potentially in white balances, these look like a great comparison for noise!


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Nov 01, 2014 07:50 |  #36

Thanks for the comparison.

I never liked DPP's "Sharpen". The new USM is better. But I mostly use ACR and I don't even have the 7DII, so I can't add much to this discussion anyway :)
But I do like the 7DII and overall it's a great body I think. I'd love to have one. It's just I can't justify one right now, most pieces of my gear have their place in what I shoot, I can't sell them to raise funds (except for my Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC which is for sale). Too many cameras...


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Nov 01, 2014 08:18 |  #37

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17245225 (external link)
Having the raw would be great, I can do a better side by side that way. Other than slight differences potentially in white balances, these look like a great comparison for noise!

The raw files are here:

http://www.lj3.com/mis​c/isocomp.zip (external link)

The file is about 600MB. Enjoy! Looking forward to hearing what you find.


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Nov 01, 2014 08:23 |  #38

gabebalazs wrote in post #17245236 (external link)
I never liked DPP's "Sharpen". The new USM is better. But I mostly use ACR...

I agree; I just chose something simple for this test. In hindsight, I probably should have set it to zero. I mostly use Lightroom. Many of us are impatiently waiting for the 7D2 upgrade. :)


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Nov 01, 2014 08:33 |  #39

Jim thanks for doing the conparison. I would suggest running DPP and zeroing out all settings except for maybe lens correction, doing cropping, white balance and exposure correction and then converting to a TIFF and then using LR or whatever other PP programs you have for everyone else.


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Nov 01, 2014 08:41 |  #40

gabebalazs wrote in post #17245236 (external link)
Thanks for the comparison.

I never liked DPP's "Sharpen". The new USM is better. But I mostly use ACR and I don't even have the 7DII, so I can't add much to this discussion anyway :)
But I do like the 7DII and overall it's a great body I think. I'd love to have one. It's just I can't justify one right now, most pieces of my gear have their place in what I shoot, I can't sell them to raise funds (except for my Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC which is for sale). Too many cameras...

The thing about DPP it is only offers capture sharpening whether you use Sharpen or USM. Adobe products offer output sharpening or you can use a 3 party plugin, etc. I'm not saying DPP is not good but based on learning about this stuff to me it is just missing. If I use DPP I typically using sharpen at about 3 for the capture phase but all images ultimately wind up in PS for more editing if required but most importantly final sharpening.


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Nov 01, 2014 08:42 |  #41

I always see all these tests which are great but I won't really know until the RAW updates come out for ACR and LR so I can apply my workflow. Then I can compare apples to apples.


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Nov 01, 2014 15:10 |  #42

digital paradise wrote in post #17245293 (external link)
I always see all these tests which are great but I won't really know until the RAW updates come out for ACR and LR so I can apply my workflow. Then I can compare apples to apples.

As long as the same software and steps are used across all files when comparing one camera to another, it is an apples to apples comparison. Don't need Adobe to do raw comparisons. You may because you choose to use it, but it doesn't invalidate the comparisons done so far with DPP, especially if you know how to use DPP.


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Nov 01, 2014 15:30 |  #43

So can anyone explain the differences between these histograms? The 7D2 has the narrowest of the 3 cameras?


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Nov 01, 2014 15:39 |  #44

Seems to get skinnier by the year/release date.

Different subject, lighting spectrum or something like that comes to mind.


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Nov 01, 2014 15:47 |  #45

2n10 wrote in post #17246067 (external link)
Seems to get skinnier by the year/release date.

Different subject, lighting spectrum or something like that comes to mind.

These are from Jim's samples, same lighting, everything....

Here is my analysis from ISO 6400. Jim pushed the exposure up 1/2 stop to brighten them up. I pulled them back to 0, and made sure the settings from the 5D3 was copied and pasted to the other 2 to guarantee identical results. USM was taken down to 1 as well.

The 7D2 and 70D look very, very close, both even have the blue blobs. The 5D3 is definitely better, but probably 1 stop or less better. In this particular sample, the 7D2 retains great detail, something the original 7D had issues with.

IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Electronics/Miscellaneous-Items/i-RPq3mXr/0/O/potna.jpg

IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Electronics/Miscellaneous-Items/i-mNjt4zw/0/O/potnb.jpg

here is what happens when you push up saturation to really make out the color noise.
IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Electronics/Miscellaneous-Items/i-3Hxc8GK/0/O/potnc.jpg

here is what happens when I remove noise equally from all 3 and sharpen a bit.
IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Electronics/Miscellaneous-Items/i-mpwcL9d/0/O/potnd.jpg

Now one caveat, these are snapshots right from DPP. I never gave DPP the opportunity to write out the 3 JPGs. I might do that next and see if they look identical, and if not, then DPP has different algorithms by model.

Here are the JPGs... The 70D and 7D2 are very, very close, with a bit more detail perhaps on the 7D2, however even a slight twitch in the focus between the different bodies could have caused that.

This confirms much of the findings we had with both the IR samples and the DPReview samples. There is a slight difference in the JPG results vs the screen snapshots of the raw from DPP, but that could be software differences between DPP and Photoshop.

The best summary at this point I can give those looking at the 70D or 7D2 is that they are very, very close at the 100% view. The 5D3 is about 1 stop better, which means the 6D is a bit over 1 stop better. I wish we had a 1D4 for these tests too, it would be better, but probably about 1/2 stop or so.
IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Electronics/Miscellaneous-Items/i-FVzkkLd/0/O/potnd.jpg

Here is ISO 12800, and I put the 7D2 6400 sliver right next to the 5D3 to show the 1 stop difference. Here is where it seems the 7D2 starts to walk away from the 70D a bit.
IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Electronics/Miscellaneous-Items/i-Gc73BWB/0/O/potne.jpg

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7D2: 70D/7D2/5D3 ISO Comparison
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