Canon 580EX II question

Hello all,

As you can see in my signature, I have a Canon 580EXII flash, unfortunately I dropped the flash, and it does not work atm. So I am not able to test what I was told, and have to ask.


I was told that the 580EX II can be used as a remote trigger for the 430EX II also in a way, where the 580EX II DOES NOT FIRE.

For expamle:
I have a 580EX II on my 5D Mk. II, and want to trigger 2 External 430EX IIs with it, but I do not want the 580EX II to fire, only the two 430 EX -es. To have the subject lit from left and right, with the 430's, but not from the front (where the camera is).

Is this possible?!


Thank in advance.

Yeah, just turn off the flash firing option in the menu. Toggle the option from "enable" to "disable". All flashes can do that.

CRCchemist wrote in post #17248992
Yeah, just turn off the flash firing option in the menu. Toggle the option from "enable" to "disable". All flashes can do that.

Great, cool, thank you!

I was looking for a way, to operate other flashes off the camera, and I was looking at Youngnuo ETTL triggers, tha Canon ST-E2, and similar.
Turns out I can do it all with my 580EX II, and never knew it... (I have that flash for 4 years now)
(Yes I know other flashes need to "see" the 580EX II, but that is not an issue most of the time.)

CRCchemist wrote in post #17249002
Don't bother with the ST-E3-RT. Too many people complain about it. Get the YN-E3-RT. That seems to be the consensus alternative with all the same functionalities, plus some additional ones.

Well, I won't even bother with that, as the 580EX is capable of remote triggering my other flashes, so, I do not see any need for it at the moment.

If your 580EX II does not work, how is it going to communicate with your other flashes? They do not have radio transmitters built into them. The way the 580 would trigger your 430s is using optical, ie; the 580 needs to flash, which would trigger the 430s.

frozenframe wrote in post #17249018
If your 580EX II does not work, how is it going to communicate with your other flashes? They do not have radio transmitters built into them. The way the 580 would trigger your 430s is using optical, ie; the 580 needs to flash, which would trigger the 430s.

It will be reapired.
Think is, I was looking at remote triggers in the past, for triggering external flashes.
But turns out my 580EX can do it.

I am at the moment unable to test this function as it needs to be repaired, that is why I had to ask it here

frozenframe wrote in post #17249018
The 580 needs to flash, which would trigger the 430s.

Well, that is now confusing.
So the question was IF I can trigger the 430EX-es without it flashing.
Now you say it can only trigger WITH flashing...
So I am confused again

Your Master flash (580) must be able to at least deliver a pre-flash to talk to the slave (430) flashes. That's what triggers the slaves. Absent of this there is no way for them to communicate. Once you get the 580 repaired then you will be able to do this.

I have 2 430EX II, and just received a Shanny SN600SC. I've been using YN600c triggers for off-camera setups. Shanny, and Yongnuo just recently released flashes that have the radio communication built in, just like Canon's 600.

With Canon Wireless Light - IR type (which is what the 580ExII offers) the 580ExII as master uses Controlling flashes and, if so set, a Capture flash.

Controlling flashes are mostly 'Pre-flashes' that is pre-synchronous - but - the very last component is co-synchronous, sometimes called Trigger-flash. This last trigger-flash is very weak and as long as the master flash is correctly setup not to contribute its capture-flash to the image, most of the time you won't see it in the capture. However, at high isos, at short range or with mirrors in-frame, you may just make it out.

To get rid of trigger-flash totally, then you need either an IR pass filter over the master - or - to operate the network with HSS in actual operation (making even the trigger-flash early).

frozenframe wrote in post #17249035
Your Master flash (580) must be able to at least deliver a pre-flash to talk to the slave (430) flashes. That's what triggers the slaves. Absent of this there is no way for them to communicate. Once you get the 580 repaired then you will be able to do this.

Pre-flash should no be an issue, as long as It is not shown on the final picture.
Or, does it show also on the final picture?

No, the pre-flash does not show, unless like was stated, you're using a fairly high ISO, then you might have it show a little.

OceanRipple wrote in post #17249045
With Canon Wireless Light - IR type (which is what the 580ExII offers) the 580ExII as master uses Controlling flashes and, if so set, a Capture flash.

Controlling flashes are mostly 'Pre-flashes' that is pre-synchronous - but - the very last component is co-synchronous, sometimes called Trigger-flash. This last trigger-flash is very weak and as long as the master flash is correctly setup not to contribute its capture-flash to the image, most of the time you won't see it in the capture. However, at high isos or at short range, you may just make it out.

To get rid of trigger-flash totally, then you need either an IR pass filter over the master - or - to operate the network with HSS in actual operation (making even the trigger-flash early).

Thank you very much, this was really helpfull

The pre-flashes don't ever show up in the image, since they are fired when the shutter is closed. But the final trigger flash, the one used to tell the slaves exactly when to fire, per definition has to fire when the shutter is open.
I made some experiments and found out that the trigger flash is equivalent to setting the flash manually to 1/512 power level. You can't do that, since the lowest setting is 1/256, but by testing when the trigger flash is sufficient to illuminate the image by itself I found this out.
So at f/1.4 and ISO 3200 and one meter away, you need nothing but the trigger flash to illuminate your picture. It will also be very evident if you shoot into a mirror or something similar.

The ST-E3-RT works with radio transmission only, so it's not useful with flashes like the 580 EX II or the 430 EX II. Currently, it works together with the 600 EX-RT only.

CRCchemist wrote in post #17249002
Don't bother with the ST-E3-RT. Too many people complain about it. Get the YN-E3-RT. That seems to be the consensus alternative with all the same functionalities, plus some additional ones.

The ST-E3-RT wouldn't be applicable here as it's radio only.

EDIT: Just noticed that Anders also mentioned this above.

apersson850 wrote in post #17249057
The ST-E3-RT works with radio transmission only, so it's not useful with flashes like the 580 EX II or the 430 EX II. Currently, it works together with the 600 EX-RT only.

drvnbysound wrote in post #17249092
The ST-E3-RT wouldn't be applicable here as it's radio only.

EDIT: Just noticed that Anders also mentioned this above.

I was thinking about the ST-E2 too, but if there is a need for a trigger-flash to trigger the 430EX flashes, how is the ST-E2 triggering them ?!